Can this logic be refuted?

by notsurewheretogo 90 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jwfacts

    The reasoning is good but your dates are a bit out, it was 1980 that an organ transplant was re-allowed. See Watchtower & Organ Transplants for the quotes.

    It would be nice to let the elders and everyone for that matter know you have made a reasoned and logical decision to fade. However, logic does not have a place when pitted against a high control religion, and any attempt to reason can only lead to bad consequences. It could be a good point to make with someone that genuinely wants to know why you have faded, but risky.

  • outsmartthesystem

    I agree with you in that your logic is spot on. But I also agree with the board. Your logic will be overlooked. All the elders will hear is that you are daring to question the legitimacy of the "faithful slave". They do not have to answer your questions.

    Avoid them at all costs.

  • notsurewheretogo

    Thanks for the link Paul...

  • Ding

    Think about how you as an elder would have been expected to answer that point if some wavering JW had thrown it up to you.

    WT leaders would never say "holy spirit got it wrong."

    Unspoken WT Rule #1 is, "The GB is always right and must be believed even when they make mistakes. If they are wrong, it's up to Jehovah to straighten them out. Don't run ahead of Jehovah's chariot."

    So it was the humble brothers on the GB who misunderstood, but Jehovah corrected them, which just proves that they are God's organization.

    In fact, EVERYTHING proves that they are God's organization...

    Your "critical, fault-finding attitude" shows that you are being tempted and misled into apostasy by Satan.

    Either repent or face a JC.

    That's WT "logic."

  • whathappened

    You will be labeled an apostate if you ask the wrong questions, my friend. You have to put your family first here. If you don't want to be DF'd for apostacy you must keep quiet for the time being so that your family can remain intact. This will be the noble thing to do for your wife and children and I encourage you to just remain inactive.

  • adamah

    Just to dog-pile on, you are wasting your breath using reasoning with the unreasoning. Your logic could be air-tight and flawless, and it wouldn't matter one bit since it's not a purely logical decision.

    I suspect you need to ask yourself WHY you want to share TTATT with them?

    I suspect you're harboring a bit of that JW thinking of, "If you had REALLY GOOD NEWS, wouldn't YOU TOO want to share it with others?" In the case of TTATT, it's good news that they don't have to waste their lives dedicated to the preaching work, or dying for a lie (blood doctrine), etc. But the fact is, that's a vestige of JW "stinking thinking", feeling a sense of responsibility for others, and warning them requires over-stepping personal boundaries to intrude in their lives. You owe them NOTHING, as they'd turn on YOU on a dime (which you'll likely soon find out the hard way).

    Perhaps your ego tells you that since JWs listened to you when you were an elder, that it spilled over into them having personal respect for YOU, and not the title of 'elder'. I assure you, it's the LATTER: while you may have stepped down, they still treat you nicely since you MAY return to the role. But if you lose that, you're as good as dead to them.

    It's a bitter-sweet realization that we cannot or alter or influence the actions of those who aren't willing to listen with an open mind; people HAVE to be motivated to accept TTATT, since it's not only a logical decision, but one influenced by emotions.


  • Ding

    I know a presiding overseer (as they were called then) who discovered TTATT, told his congregation what he was learning, and was DFd by elders he had brought into "the truth".

    Their loyalty is to the GB, not to you and not to logic.

    I'm not saying that no one will listen to you.

    Maybe some will, but don't count on it.

    And make no mistake -- if you are vocal about what you are learning about "the truth," you will be DFd.

    Look what they did to Ray Franz.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley

    If you have not already learned about the Douglas Walsh Trial, prepare to have your world rocked. The WT leadership openly admitted that JWs must believe falsehoods in order to be a JW. Reason: "unity at all cost".

    In the 1954 Douglas Walsh Trial in Scotland, Fred Franz, who was Watchtower president from 1977-1992, was asked about the Society’s changes in doctrine. Here is how he answered:

    Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years?

    A. We have to wait and see.

    Q. And in the meantime the body of Jehovah’s Witnesses have been following error?

    A. They have been following misconstructions on the Scriptures.

    Q. Error?

    A. Well, error.


    "Satan attempted to use his influence in a subtle way, and in this he was successful. How so? By insinuation and falsehood. He put forth error, under cover of a lie, as a substitute for truth. In other words, he put darkness for light."

    The Watchtower, May 15, 1976, p. 304

  • notsurewheretogo

    Yeah I know about the Doug Walsh up on it...I am from and live in Scotland in-law family are in the Proclaimers book as my wife is like 5th generation while I was a convert...

    The only reason why I want to tell people is the same reason why I went on the ministry...people deserve to hear the this case...the truth about the truth! No other reason...

    But I appreciate it's futile to do so...

  • jgnat

    If you really want a Witness to think, dole out your information in little drips. Let them mull it over. They must have their own "aha" moment, which may be different than yours. I'd stay away from the elders altogether.

    Your wife, on the other hand, is a closer project with a much better potential for reward.

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