We lived in Germany for a while in the 00s. In the 70s brothers there (and other lands too) served 2 years inprisonment for refusing military service.(Not allowed by the Governing Body). Created severe hardship for left spouses and young children. Then, years later,around 1992 I think, the Governing Body allowed alternate "service" saying it was a conscience matter. In 2006(?) they had the gall to put in the wt "we are convinced that the brothers who suffered a prison term look back with satisfaction that they were able to prove their loyalty to Jehovah". I purposely looked at several such brothers in the cong. No-one nodded in agreement and all had stoney faces.The God of the bible is NOT such a "Jehovah". This is very important for a fader/leaver of this cult to realise. Damn the Borg! (sorry).They destroy you when your'e in and that can easily destroy you spiritually when you get out. Notsurewheretogo: Psalm 56: "I am constantly hounded by those who slander me. They are always twisting what I say.They spend their days trying to harm me. They come together to spy on me. Watching my every step, eager to kill me." GB/elders fit this description when you dissent.(and that's what they think of you as an ex-jw too) v13: "So now I can walk in your presence, O God, in your LIFE-GIVING LIGHT". NLT. Don't give up on God without researching Him. No noo-lite needed from the real One. I wish you increasing joy and inner contentment. xx
Can this logic be refuted?
@paul from clevaland...good point...I know deep down how it will play out...guess I am looking for a multitude of counsellors to help me make sure I make the right decision...which is to keep stoom....
I frankly don't understand why you are asking this question.
First off, in your initial post, you state that you were an elder just resigned. In that case, you should be thoroughly grounded on how your presention of logic will play out.
All you have to do is imagine what would have been your response if you were sitting across from a congregant with the same presentation of facts with another brother at your side playing good cop\bad cop when you were still an elder.
@out4good3...I am simply looking and listening to the community of exjws who have been through this...and as I said previously not all elders are labelled as "company men"...if a brother had come to me with my logic I would have at least attempted to try and see his point...whilst I may know the answer as to what might happen or the best way to handle it I am simply wanting to hear from others...
There is surely no harm in that...it doesn't matter if I know the answers to my own questions...I am wanting feedback from those who have done what I propose I might do...
I agree with Don'tCallMeShirley, and all really...
We had a friend who died in the 60's because he refused a transplant. When the doctrine changed, it was "He was loyal to Jehovah, he'll be resurrected."
Now that we have 'faded,' we have tried to help several people, and most of the time, it gives them the shakes, they have no reply, are afraid of the answer, and they say "you should talk to an elder."
In our lifetime, we have seen elders, and the GB, support very weird actions in the congregation. You never know , even if you think you know, whow any individual, let alone a group of men (get them cornered...) will react.
I think, as many here have said, it is best to display that you are happy, content, have no problems... be as mysterious as you can...
Please listen to everyone... I thought I was an excellent "arguer of fact." When I spoke to a close one about 607, overlapping generations, end not 'imminent, Russel was crazy he couldn't be chosen by God, The Awake made a promise in God's name that the end would come before the end of the 20th century, and it didn't.....
They didn't care... they admitted they don't believe everything the Society ("those old men") teach, but....
1. They'll get corrected, Jehovah always does that.
2. Jehovah's always had an organization.
3. Who else is preaching the good news, using God's name?
4. (the best) "At least people will be ready"
Want to try the old "would you drink a glass of water with a drop of poison in it?" Does not even cause a blink of an eye.... That only appllies if you are talking to someone else about their religion. No illustrations apply back to the Society.
Do..... not.... do.... it.....
PS, when you need to make a "donation" (if you go any more at all, tell your wife you'll take care of it, and drop something else in)
as I like to say: cha ching, cha ching! you aren't getting any more of my bling!
As a former elder (yeah, big deal in the grand scheme of things), I throw my lot in with the others.
What do you hope to accomplish?
If you don't want to DA or be DF'd, keep your research to yourself, using it in small bits with your loved ones at appropriate times.
The Organization will not change for you, no matter how much knowledge you have accumulated against it.
The elders may be your friends, but don't fool yourself, they are appointees of the Corporation, they ultimately do the will of the Corporation, if they really care about you, they will want to bring you back into the flock using the extreme measure of shunning.
Just my two cents.
Again some good comments...I don't go to meetings...I don't donate...I never will again...my newfound happiness has confused my still-in wife who thought I would get sad after leaving...
I appreciate all who responded on here...
When I was in I had the respect of my friends many who held serious positions in the congregation (this was before we had Elders).
When I discovered TTATT I thought for sure the logic of my thinking would impress the people who knew me best.
Perhaps, I thought, they would continue to be my friends and respect my decision. Maybe at that time I needed my friends more then my religion........maybe to be really honest I was valued as a JW but not in the world.
What I found was that no one gave a crap about what I now believed. I escaped being DF, kept my family close and just faded away. Eventually I learned not to speak about anything more important then the weather when on rare occasion I found myself in the company of JW's.
Shutting up was the hardest thing. I can't tell you what a pleasure it is in my new life to speak openly and honestly to none JW friends.
When I got the "truth" I was very passionate about it...
Now that I know "TTATT" I have a burning desire to tell everyone about it...it is very hard thing to quell...thankfully I have some former friends who disassociated themselves who I recently got in touch with and we have had some great discussions...