Can this logic be refuted?

by notsurewheretogo 90 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • pixel

    @ notsurewheretogo ok, thanks for making it clear.

    It's amazing how little elders know how to treat those that have doubts. The elders don't care to help you rectify according to their believes...they just want you to "come and stay with mama". The majority don't know doctrine anyway.

    Glad to have you here notsurewheretogo

  • iCeltic

    Not sure, you can be rest assured that this is excellent advice. The reason everyone is saying this is through experience. People who have been best mates with elders on the same body have been cast aside for talking about the things you mention.

    if you want to fade don't do it, if you want to leave in a blaze of glory then give it a go. And I'm sure it's 1980 on the organ transplants. It tells you in COC.

  • notsurewheretogo

    There are too many to thank but a lot of good [email protected]AndDontCallMeShirley yeah I know all about the context of Pr 4:18 and your question is as good as the logic in my opening post.

    @cognisonance...False Dichotomy...I see what you are saying...I agree...I am coming to the conclusion there is no god but the reason why I didn't mention that option is simply that option is not in the mind of the elders...

    It seems I will continue to fade...s adly though my best man at my wedding, my best friend is asking what is going on with me...I'm itching to tell him and have played out my conversation to him in my head a million times over...people think I'm depressed which is just the opposite of what I am...

    Is there any danger in telling my friend and even if he went to the elders (he's in another hall) then I can deny it and pledge my loyalty...

    It's funny...when I got the truth I went mental zealous and preached that I know TTATT I feel EXACTLY the same!

  • iCeltic

    Also you must know as a former elder, if someone questions any doctrine the first step is for the elders to go and attempt to 'readjust their thinking' , if that doesn't work it's a JC for apostasy.

  • sir82

    Read again what leavingwt wrote. And think back when you were a full-on believer.

    The elders don't give one whit about "logic".

    Any perceived "attack" on their beliefs will be dealt with quickly and harshly.

  • notsurewheretogo

    I'm intrigued by the responses.

    Yes I've read Crisis of Conscience and saw Ray trying to use logic and it got him nowhere but you can't label every elder like that...there are sincere ones out there like I was and if someone had come to me with the scenario I painted at the start I wouldn't try and defend the F&DS without first listening to what the brother had to say and see his point of view...

    I feel the elders would at least attempt to do the same with me...BUT I agree...the end result would still be disfellowshipping if someone said to me they don't believe that the F&DS are the Channel of God I should expect the same to me...

  • leavingwt

    If you want to maintain a positive relationship with even one, believing JW, you must keep all doubts and criticisms to yourself. The game is rigged. These people, because of the Thought Reform you've read about, are not permitted to consider things except how Mother tells them. All of those wonderful people that you know will choose 'Jehovah' over you, every time.

    Go back in time to when you first began to examine 'apostate' literature and websites. Do you recall the programmed responses you had? Do you remember the physiological effects? Sweaty palms, heart rate increase, nausea, etc? If you begin to express doubts, these people will experience those exact same things. Further, they will blame it on the fact that you have been overtaken by 'demons'.

    I wish I was joking. You cannot even make this stuff up.

  • paul from cleveland
    paul from cleveland

    As a former elder, I'm surprised that you don't already know how this will play out if you try to "reason" with them. The argument you made regarding organ transplant and the holy spirit could be made about any of their teachings that have changed. They're not going to listen or consider what you're saying. They will simply want to know if you believe the FDS is directed by God's spirit; it's a 'yes or no' question. If "no", you're an "apostate".

  • AndDontCallMeShirley

    Is there any danger in telling my friend


    I have a friend who's an Elder. We've been best friends for over 30 years. Last year I gave him information that proved a so-called "apostate" was correct in his view on a particular point, and the Elder was wrong. I even provided a quote from an older WT that showed the Org. use to have the completely opposite view it does now, and that the "apostate" made a very valid point which WT also used to agree with.

    His answer: "I don't care! I will believe whatever the GB teaches, whether it can be proved from the Bible or not."

    His next question to me was, "what are you doing reading older WT publications. You're up to no good!"

    I replied, "what does the age of WT literature matter? It's all supposedly from god and his "sole channel of communication on earth isn't it?"

    and added, "since obviously many teachings are now abandoned as "old light", despite the WT claiming it came from god, how do you know that what you firmly believe right now as "truth" will not also be sent to the scrap heap sometime in the near future? Doesn't it seem odd that if a JW didn't accept that teaching they'd be DF, but now if they do believe that same teaching they'll also be DF?"

    So, you see, even if you quote from WT's own literature, if it disagrees with current teaching, the Elders will consider you to be an "apostate" and treat you accordingly.

    My relationship with him has never been the same since that day. Now that I questioned "Mother", I'm on the "beware of him" list.

  • Splash


    My post on this thread from an hour ago has been deleted!


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