The Watchtower Writers need to answer this question "Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history!"

by ÁrbolesdeArabia 73 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • steve2
    steve2

    Ultimate Axiom, you bring a much-needed sense of clear-headed analysis to this interesting topic. I like the way you show that both "sides" - so to speak - of the argument are inclined to simplify the issue of athiesm versus theism is more/less inclined to engage in "mass murder". Your appraisal is sobering and considered.

    Your comments about nationalism are on a par with those of Emile Durkheim (the sociologist who lived in the 1820s - 1830s) who recognized that religiosity was symbolic of devotion to one's (national) group "writ large". He wrote extensively about the ways in which human beliefs in the "divine" have grown out of a need to look up to and follow and protect one's group - but that over time the overtly initiating need to belong in a group becomes overtaken by symbolic beliefs about an all-powerful "god" - who really just stands for the group "writ large".

    Group membership (i.e., nationalism) is often the major force behind people's behavior - and that behavior doesn't need to be religiously motivated but that in the 19th century is was to a degree never seen in history before (a function of a large world population among whom were more nations who were identified in one way or another with religion. But as you point out, there were also examples of nonreligious (and athiestic) leaders who were as adept at whipping up nationalistic identity - the core of what underlies egregious acts on a mass scale.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Ultimate Axiom...brilliant! couldn't agree more.

  • prologos
    prologos

    steve, cas in point

    stalin the non-believer, turned to nationalism "protect MOTHER RUSSIA" rather than the world-conquest by soviet ideology, when

    THE GOING REALLY GOT TOUGH for him in WW2, prior to the Stalingrad battles.

  • apostatethunder
    apostatethunder

    Atheism as a movement has a political agenda as do many who promote it, which want an all powerful state (themselves) to take religion's place (particularly Christianity) in people's lives. During the French Revolution destroying Churches and reliques was a big part of the program, as was redefining history in secular terms (they even changed the name of the months) and to impose their view of liberte, egalite and fraternite, hundreds of thousands of people were guillotinated.

    During the Spanish civil war, going to mass or to a religious school were reason enough to be executed by the communist side, and thousands including minors were.

    Marx said: religion is the opiate of the populace, then what is communism? Communist death toll during XX Century: 100 million people. Religions usually protect and defend life, they don't preach to kill innocents, but political ideologies do.

    Whether individual atheists realize this connection or not doesn't change the fact anymore than individual Witnesses realizing or not TTATT.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoAEKHBtNIA

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    5go:

    Though we love to call them swaztikas in Germany they are called hakenkruis (broken crosses in English) and symbol of Christianity in Austria were Hitler was raised.

    Actually, the swastika is, originally, a Sanskrit symbol, and it basically means "being good".

  • steve2
    steve2
    Atheism as a movement has a political agenda as do many who promote it, which want an all powerful state (themselves) to take religion's place (particularly Christianity) in people's lives.

    The impulse for political movements is more often than not in response to perceived or actual suffering. It's the same with the emergence of new religions, including cults - an attempt to remedy "wrongs". Trouble is, just as religious movements are prone to becomming corrupted so too are humanist movements. I'm not suggesting it always happens - but I part company with Dawkins in that I view the corruptibility of any movement - whether theistic or non-theistic - as a function of power-hunger - i.e., wanting results and wanting the ability to effect desired results.

    Interestingly, both theism and athiesm - as exemplified in national expressions - share a similar vulnerability to becomming corrupt and usually for what are ostensibly admirable reasons (e.g., to keep the nationhood secure and beyond threat). The Watchtower is hardly equal to these monolithic national tendencies but it plays out its own small-minded power grabs - to maintain its (alleged) commitment to protecting its members from worldy influences.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    I`m sorry if this has already been posted ,but wasn`t Jehovah ? the real mass murderer of history ? It`s recorded in the Bible .

    smiddy

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    Ultimate Axiom

    Well said

    smiddy

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Ultimate Axiom - Thank you for your brilliant post. Absolutely spot-on!

  • prologos
    prologos

    Are you calling jehovah an atheist?

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