by ÁrbolesdeArabia 73 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Hitler appealed to "Die Vorsehung" The sure destiny, a religious idea, when he escaped assasinations, had initial victories.
He was not an atheist, drew from many religious, therefore powerful emotional pools.
if you followed, your were among the fools,
fooled.
Athanasius has a point.
your government, even
your governing body might
be your real enemy.
Prologos, Hitler was not deeply religious! I read a debate with Cardinal Pell of Australia and Dr. Richard Dawkins where "Hitler Ping Pong" is played between the highest Catholic of Australia and the leader of the Angry Atheists (Richard Dawkins). Interestingly, the two men agree "Mao and Stalin were atheist" while Hitler and his Nazi party remain a secular movement furthering Social Darwinism's agenda of human evolution of the superior race.
Not sure how you come to the conclusion Hitler was deeply religious when that fact eludes historical scholars of Nazi Germany. A distinguished professor, Hugh Trevor-Roper at Oxford was ruined when he authenticated a forged diary claiming Hitler was anti-Christian among many other things. If Hitler was such a religious man, why would Hugh Trevor so erroneously committ academic suicide by authenticating a blatant forgery? Previously to reviewing "The Hitler Diaries" Trevor-Roper was successful (read part of his Bio and the rest on Wiki) worked in the "Her Majesty's Service" with his responsiblity of proving Hitler did not leave Berlin alive. Some conspiracy theorist claimed it was the Catholic Church and Christians who forged the "Hitler Diaries" to cover up Hitler's wicked acts to all the Jews and non-Catholic religions. If Hitler was truly a religious man, I do not understand why a very good Historian would destroy his career when the truth of Hitler's purported religious nature was abundant. It's not obvious from a historical point of view if it fooled him and we are still debating which side of the Ping Pong Table Hitler belongs on.
One more point to add, conspiracy theorist claimed Christians forged Flavious Josepheous works to add the name Jesus into History or he would have been forgotten. Conspiracy theorist had a agenda to discredit Eusebious qouting a more ancient Christian tradition about their flight to Pella. What new information was obtained or was this academic mental masteurbation? I enjoy Alex Jones and other men who challenge the System but I need more information to make a informed decession other than speculation that Christians "Stold the Body", "Wrote Flavious Josepheous Works", "Wrote the Hitler Diaries" and other wild topics!
So where did you get your information that claims Hitler was a deeply religious man? I read Hitler was involved in the Occult, Madam Blatvatsky (Grandma of New Age and dwellers in Sedona, Arizona :), really Sedona is beautiful with some very interesting individuals living there.) and how the Nazi's were trying to communicate with the dead, ancient leaders too.
edited to add more information on Trevor-Rope
"
In November 1945, Trevor-Roper was ordered by Dick White, then head of counter-intelligence in the British sector of Berlin to investigate the circumstances of Adolf Hitler's death, and to rebut the Soviet propaganda that Hitler was alive and living in the West. [4] Using the alias of Major Oughton, Trevor-Roper interviewed politicians, military men, and supporting staff who had been present in the Führerbunker with Hitler, and who had been able to escape to the West, including Bernd Freytag von Loringhoven. [5] The investigation resulted in Trevor-Roper's most famous book, The Last Days of Hitler (1947, with revised editions as late as 1995), in which he described the last ten days of Hitler's life, and the fates of some of the higher-ranking members of the inner circle as well of key lesser figures. Trevor-Roper transformed the evidence he gathered into a literary work, with sardonic humour and drama, and was much influenced by the prose styles of two of his favourite historians, Edward Gibbon and Thomas Babington Macaulay. Trevor-Roper claimed he received a death threat from someone in Portugal who claimed to represent the Stern Gang for exalting Hitler. [6]"..
AA, I carry the conviction about Nazi and WT religious mentality and behaviour because I lived both and stalinism too.
a hands on in 3 domains. Hitler drew religious sap from all sources,
predestintion, the RUNES of the nordic tales, " GOTT mit uns" on soldiers buckles. The Cross and hacken cross in Churches.
The feelings roused in the Nazi's in rallies and their films
equals in impact to listening to Bach in a cathedral.
The Nazi phenomenon can not be related to atheism.
Isidore, it would be helpful if you engaged in exchanges of ideas rather than dropping in to hurl comments that could apply equally to you. You talk about words falling on deaf ears and have shown a disappointing tendency to do the same. The Jehovian genocides of the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) show the clear link between a "True" God's orders to wipe out an entire people, including babies and old people and its execution by "His" chosen people. No history being revised there, huh?
Prologos, I saw those videos and believed the lie taught by the Society that Hitler was a good Catholic who agreed to create the Pax Romana Two or Three? JWs were taught that Hitler promised that the Church would be the beneficiary of his madness and power grabbing across Europe and the rest of the World. Were they mad Hitler rebuked Rutherford "Face the Facts", oh wait! Rutherford never attempted to speak with Hitler but exposed the Nazi Concentration Camps before any New Media did. The Golden Age broke the story wide open about Hitler's genocide against the Jews, that's the history I was taught about Hitler as a JW.
steve, I always enjoy your input and reasonable nature on other threads, seeing you post and reading them are always enjoyable no matter what side of the issue you are on. You have a style that command respect and communicate a very educated mind, thank's for posting on this thread!
This whole topic rests upon the constant failure of believers to understand what atheism means. Atheism is not a force, it is not a belief, it is not a movement. It is simply a state of not believing someone's claim about a god. That's it. A regime may indeed be led by an atheist but it is simple stupidity that would lead to postulating a causative motive of disbelief for war. Now if we say that Marxist or Fascist or Democratic or Catholic political systems are more likely to tend to war we have something to work with. A disbelief in god is not a motivating factor for war, a lack of resources, a fear of attack, a political ideology, honouring a treaty are motives for war. Belief in god however, can be a motivating factor for war if that flavour of god happens to favour combat ( the biblical god loved it and uses military phraseology all the time) hence one frequent assertion that religion is a threat to peace.
If Atheist are Humanist and their goals are the benefit of the betterment of mankind, why was there so much killing when the godless men finally reached a position where they could make a change for the better of the human experience? Do we fall back on the excuses used by the religions condemmed by Humanist like Sam Harris who neatly wrap up all bad things Atheist leaders did and rebrand them under a different worldview or belief system?
Nobody want's to take ownership of men who share their view that "God is Dead" or "There is not life after death", "we do not have to worry about a Divine Punishment because when your gone, your gone!" Christians and other religions are forced to own up to their Kooks who killed in the most bloody fashion, it's about time people like Sam Harris and Dawkins embrace men who were part of the Atheist family and own up to their mistakes. I get tired of people ducking when it come's to accepting the whackos of every family. Religion has their crazy family members and so do Atheist "Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, and others who helped contribute to the deaths (various estimates go into the 80 to 250 million killed) Millions! The jury is still out on Hitler, which side was he truly on will not be proven, that's my opinion currently. Why can't people own up to their crazies?
Some person started a thread on why success is more pleasure than failure, I actually am in the camp where I belive I learn more from my failures than I do with sucess. I related how the Japanese Manufactures of various products forced their Plants to produce the output which would break down the Assembly line. The point where production is stopped and they bring in engineers to figure out why their machines got hot and broke. The Japanese learned to increase output by learning where they went wrong, it seems strange to us because we are only success driven in America or the Western World, we view failure as a moral short-coming and try to hide from this. I saw this in the Brokerage Industry in 1987, 1996, April 2000 to 2002 3rd Quarter and back again in 2008 to end of 2009. Failure was dodged and ducked from, nobody wanted to say "We really screwed up because their ego is so intertwined with success. Why do you think admitting to failures in our beliefs or business is avoided in the Western Society?
I can only conclude AA that you are being wilfully stupid on this. Atheism is not a belief it is a state. You are falsely equating the two. All babies are born into an atheistic state and are then subsequently taught beliefs. Marxism is a political belief, Christianity is a religious belief. Contextually Christianity is atheistic with regards to Greek gods. Do you understand now?
What you are trying to talk about seems to be ideologies that include a state of atheism to all gods as a tenet ( like Stalinism). If this is the case I'm sure all Stalinists here will be able to respond about their 'crazies' and their view on it.
The stupidity from AA continues, ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION.......If you can not see that you must be stupid personified.
