Captain Obvious you said it ' Those things are governed by the laws of physics. These laws do not change' yep you got it, Don't you think that now its obvious that a higher power had something to do with creation. Without these non random laws, none of this would be possible, and i'm the one being called ignorant. Seriously it obvious that this idea that all of this could've been created is not so stupid after all.
Evolution is Crap, there I said it!
by Crazyguy 261 Replies latest jw friends
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QC
Crazy, did you check your mail?
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Captain Obvious
It's not stupid, and it very well may have been created! There is just zero evidence to support such a concept.
Should a non-imaginary deity show up on the scene and prove who he is, prove that he created everything and tell us how he did it.. THEN it would be time to consider whether this deity deserves to be worshipped, served or ignored. If it happens to be the YHVH of the bible, I'll pass. I'd take Satan over that guy.
Like I said before, the laws that do not change do not make it obvious that they were created. It may to you, but that is your confirmation bias. I see you have skipped away from the evolution subject again... Back on track pal, I can do this all day. No need to be slippery, you are running out of ground to slip on!
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jgnat
I've offered enough. Don't stop looking, questioning, learning crazyguy.
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Crazyguy
I am being honest is the fact the yes i'll look at and read some of the books suggested but again there is so many holes in the evolution theory and missing parts its mind boggling and everytime some scientists seems to come up with some real good evidence, its later discovered he faked it. It seems as though someone needs as much faith in this theory as that of one that believes the bible.
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Captain Obvious
It only seems that way to you, the believer. You don't know there are holes, you have been taught by creationist pseudo scientists that there are. They make an assertion, then claim it is an issue with the theory. You have cited such examples on this thread. Then there are claims like the claim that the fossil record shows no intermediate species... False. But if it we asserted by such a pseudo scientist in your book, you would likely accept it without really finding out the truth because it confirms your bias. Does that make sense?
I appreciate your sticking it out with your thread. A thread with a title like this one HAD to go on. You can't make a statement like that, make silly assertions in your OP, ignore responses and then expect it wouldn't go to 12 pages and counting.
You say there are so many holes... How much information do you want? The truth is, the MOUNTAIN of direct evidence to support Darwin's theory of Natural Selection is truly staggering. A small honest consideration of it was enough to convert me, and several million others. Research on the subject is not done usually with the goal of letting go of god. Personally, that was the hardest part.
After realizing that I was lied to my whole life I tried hard to stick to Christianity. Unfortunately the deeper I looked into the bible, the larger my list of questions and doubts grew. I had always been taught the WT's view on evolution. After reading those WT books again with an open mind, referencing their quote mined articles I decided it was time for a deeper look into natural history. I reasoned that if they had to lie outright to make a case against the theory, I'd better take a deeper look. The only thing holding me to a belief in Christianity was a personal obligation to my creator for creating me.
I asked myself a question that everyone would do well to mask themselves; how much information does a person have to overlook, in hopes of supporting evidence coming to light before he becomes an ignorant fool? Am I an ignorant fool? Surely I can't be. I know I don't want to be. I picked up The Blind Watchmaker with a skeptical view. I held many of the reservations you do, albeit less detailed. I wanted a fuller explanation of what evolution is, how it works and what is some of the evidence for it. Surely if it were so obviously a farce as I had been taught it was, 98% of the world's leading scientists were also wrong. Those are odds I wouldn't play against.
I'm going to go check out your TATT thread now, it has serious potential. I hope I haven't offended you with any of my responses to this or your other thread. I forget sometimes that not that long ago it could have been me saying those things you have said.
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Crazyguy
well just remember that you mentioned physics and said that i was getting off topic, but if one is really going to dismiss a creation by design idea for evolution then one has to consider all aspects of the universe not just micro or macro evolution. maybe u should pick up the new book Darwin's doubt.
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LisaRose
What is interesting to me Crazy Guy is that you apparently understand and know that you were lied to by the WTBTS, but you still think they were telling the truth about evolution, because you managed to dig up some pseudo scientist who confirms your Watchtower instill distrust of science. You ignore the work of thousands of legitimate experts in the field, people who have studied for years and published peer revised work. You ignore the mountain of evidence coming from DNA research.
I am amazed at the knowledge of some who post here, and astounded that you don't give it more credence. I do respect your honesty and I think many other dubs and ex dubs share your beliefs, but are afraid of posting here and being called dumb. So you are doing us a favor, in a way, it gives those who have knowledge in the field a chance to share it. We are not all as evolved, so to speak, on evolution. I know I have learned a lot, and I am sure others have too.
So keep asking questions, keep an open mind, you may learn something.
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Captain Obvious
You mentioned light, colours, etc. physics. These don't belong in a thread about evolution. The Big Bang is another separate theory, as is abiogenesis. These must be considered on their own and each would take a thread of its own. Evolution doesn't explain how life started, just how it got to where it is now since then. Some like to place god in there right at the beginning... Problem is, are you really willing to reduce god's hand in things to just creating the first cell? Doubt it.
All of these theories have one thing in common.. They all happen without the need for an outside influence. The Big Bang and the formation of the universe is driven by gravity, a theory which I'm quite certain you aren't willing to try to disprove. The Big Bang was discovered by a catholic priest, Georges Lemaître . He discovered that the universe was expanding, something Einstein himself found impossible to believe at the time. A look at the timeline of an expanding universe in reverse leads to only one conclusion. One single event. Bang. Lemaître saw no issue with this discovery and his faith. He was later promoted to Cardinal in the RCC.
Abiogenesis, well.. I not knowledgeable enough to talk about that. Just because its been difficult to replicate in a lab over a short period of time doesn't render it disproven. Even if it were, it would still have no effect on Darwin's theory. These things are what you need to understand first. Go ahead and read The Magic of Reality. It's written at a school-age reading level, and explains clearly how we know what we know, how to follow facts to truth, etc. Then goes into the basics of evolution. From there feel free to grab another book on evolution if you still feel like it.
As far as me reading Darwin's Doubt is concerned, I am curious to see if it brings out any new arguments that haven't already been disproven. Unfortunately my "to read" list is HUGE at the moment. I have ten unfinished books in my Audible library, and rarely take the time to sit and read a whole paper book. I usually crush audiobooks, just been falling behind.
I'll make you a deal, CrazyGuy. Only because I like you, and want you to educate yourself as many of us have. You are intelligent, for sure.
If you read The Magic of Reality and The Blind Watchmaker then come on this forum and post a review, I will do the same with Darwin's Doubt. It'll slide to the top of my "to read" list. The Blind Watchmaker has become a tad outdated in some parts, but the newer versions address this.
So what do you say, do we have a deal?
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Crazyguy
Lisa I'm sure you're more educated than me and why smarter in the subject of evolution but that doesn't mean i can just give away my doubts over to a so called expert in any field without asking questions. Would you go to a doctor and let him do surgery without asking some questions? And as for the field of study and the experts again they have been caught lying and fudging the evidence.
It reminds me of the movie on the internet called Zeitgeist, in the part on religion they did a nice job showing all this glossy evidence that christianity was nothing more than stolen ideas from Egyptian religion and there was 200 similarities between the two to prove it. Well it took me a couple of days spending almost the entire time researching but i finally i found out this whole idea was the concoction of a guy named Gerald Massey lived in the 1800's and was a high level Druid and Evolutionist that travel to Egypt from England then returned and made the whole thing up. I also studied the 200 similarities claimed and it wasn't true either. Anyway since he was a high level druid and an evolutionist he obviously had reasons to try to mislead people about christianity.
So with that and and my eyes being opened to the JW religion please don't expect me to just go read a book and then all of a sudden believe everything evolution. I am now going to be much more critical minded.