by zed is dead 577 Replies latest members private
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“...are you saying that is a bad thing?”
Glander,
When the subject is of specific individuals’ character, emotion-driven adrenaline tends to be a really bad idea.
When the subject is how to win an Olympic medal, emotion-driven adrenaline tends to be a really good idea.
Marvin Shilmer
Thanks, Marvin. Now I need to find out what's driving my emotionally driven adrenaline.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think you have a dog in this discussion...?
Tylinbrando:
What does this mean:
Julia and Bo are administrators and claim their "adds" were verified, vetted, cleared....whatever its called.
Verified, vetted and cleared not by the persons added but by AAWA?
What I find interesting is these two were not mentioned by Juan to me. He mentioned Rick Fearon and Danny Hazard added people. Someone pointed out to me at that time that it seemed like Juan was pointing to more "radical", (if you will), FB adders, not mentioning Bo or Julia. I thought, I've already been accused of sinister thinking, I will not go off in that direction. But as the dust settles, it is obvious to me he was deflecting the activity away from Bo and Julia in giving the names he gave me.
I am the type that likes to think the best of people, especially in the exJW community. That, the blaming of the people added, the sorry statement from AAWA about what happened, the people added being called "members" and bragging about it, not acknowledging the hundreds who may not even know they are in the group...I'll stop...just leaves me sour on AAWA.
We are in all different places, yet with commonality. I don't want to lose trust in each other.
PS. There is emotion driven adrenaline on both sides of the issue. Has that been ignored or missed? And why not have a discussion? If people have moved on, good for them. If some want to discuss it, ignore the thread. I don't need a lecture.
What I’ve said here and there about AAWA is based on firsthand voice conversation with Richard and Cedars. We’ve also swapped emails here and again on things AAWA. These discussions initially occurred because a few folks asked me to look into things on their behalf, and I did. What I found is a far cry different from what I see bantered about here
Marvin. Unfortunately, I think you are acting in good faith but being given a story that may not always match what actually happened.
I have no doubt you trust and believe what you have been told but they seem keen to deal with people individually and dehind the scenes which could be because it's easier to give different information to different people without the inconvenience of it having to match facts.
Given that I know of several statements that they have made to different people that are contradictory, can you see why I would by skeptical of what you are telling us, even though it is based on your firsthand conversations? Somewhere along the line, someone just isn't being honest.
Originally we were told the people being added to facebook was not due to the AAWA but because of over enthusiastic volunteers.
They were never forthcoming with any names precisely because it turns out it WAS done by AAWA people.
This is why they need to be open and honest and why I see zero value in backroom conversations and "trust me, I trust them" type claims. If the truth is going to put them ion a bad light then I'm sorry, they need to rip the plaster off and deal with the short-term pain before, erm, the wound festers and a leg drops off.
Julia Barrick Douglas, it seems you got some more homework to do Marvin, about this whole Facebook fiasco.
Maybe you could apply your powers of investigation to finding out why AAWA would rather keep up a stupid Facebook page that is damaging people's real lives than simply take it down. If your insider knowledge could crack that little mystery I think everyone would be mightily impressed.
Whoever is this JME character, has anyone here sought to know whether he is or was an AAWA authority or volunteer at the time of the alleged acts? If so, and without giving away private information, how did you go about gaining this information?
If he could do it and did do it then the AAWA allowed him the authority to do it and as they refuse to undo it then it is as though the AAWA did it because they are happy to accept the result of the action. Whether they now say he acted for them or not, is irrelevant.
If someone bulk-signed up 1000 people for JWN and I then refused to remove the accounts because I thought I'd "gained" something by it, wouldn't that be *me* that was ultimately responsible?
Or, is this discussion moving along fueled by emotion-driven adrenaline?
I think that's a little unfair. Aren't people entitled to be emotional over this? Or is emotion a luxury reserved only for AAWA members?
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“Maybe I'm wrong but I think you have a dog in this discussion...?”
Glander,
I’m not sure what you think my “dog” is but my interest is in finding and sharing verifiable information that can help people.
Do you have something else in mind. If so, feel free to spit it out. I don’t have a problem with frankness.
Marvin Shilmer
Do you have something else in mind. If so, feel free to spit it out. I don’t have a problem with frankness.
I am looking forward to a frank explanation of who comprise the peanut gallery and what they did to merit the pejorative.
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“Marvin. Unfortunately, I think you are acting in good faith…”
Simon,
I don’t take manipulation lightly or silently, and this circumstance is no different.
When I’ve inquired of AAWA I’ve gotten a few mixed signals. There’s nothing odd about that. People are involved. It’s inevitable. So I bore into these mixed signals to decide for myself about honesty et al. It turns out everyone was telling me the same thing as best they knew it at the time and according to their technical skills. It turned out there were reasons for what appeared as mixed signals, and they were honest reasons.
I’m not a fan of Facebook, and for all the reasons you mentioned a few days ago. Today I spoke with leadership inside AAWA to get direct answers to direct questions. Here is what I’m told:
1. Two persons arguably under auspices of AAWA created Facebook accounts. As I understand it Facebook has a selection of “secret” for accounts, and this was the sort of account each of these persons selected. There was an apparent oversight having to do with restriction to administrators and that problem was promptly resolved. I’m told a total of 50 people were invited to these accounts, all of which were vetted and none of whose private information was made public.
2. One person created a public AAWA Facebook account and invited tons of people, and tons took up that invitation and there private data was collected and displayed. This person made use of AAWA’s name and logo. An AAWA volunteer saw this and immediately contacted the individual to have them cease and desist. But damage had already occurred. It should be noted that this person never sent in a volunteer request form, was never asked by AAWA to do anything, acted contrary to AAWA’s mission with his actions and, essentially, thumbed his nose until he was compelled to stop what he was doing by alternate method. (Which method is no business of mine to repeat!) This guy was not and is not associated with AAWA in any way or for any purpose, other than perhaps in his own mind.
3. I’m not going to suggest who is the person responsible for the unauthorized AAWA Facebook creation. But it was no surprise when I learned who. I’ve known of him for years. Once I had direct communication with him. Let me say only that I won’t make a second trip to that well!
4. My understanding is that AAWA will make announcement regarding this in general terms perhaps early next week, if not this week.
5. I was asked my advice about whether AAWA should identify the person who made unauthorized use of its name and logo. My advice was, essentially, not to antagonize a maniac unless you have no choice. I don’t know if they will or won’t. It’s not my call.
6. The only ripping off of plaster I’ve seen is the attempted hide-lifting of AAWA’s backside by people who, though understandably angry, are probably misguided in the direction of that angst.
I don’t kowtow to manipulative punks. It’s not my way. If anything I have a tendency to be overly frank. The folks inside AAWA certainly know that. I think also that JWN participants know this if they’ve been around for long. You should know. If I smell a rat I say so. In this case I smell a rat, but it’s not coming from inside AAWA. I’ll add that the rat I smell is not among any long-time JWN participant either.
My advice to folks is don’t trust anyone with anything until you’re individual convinced of trustworthiness, and even then keep your wits!
Simon, in all this you might be delighted to know that behind the scenes quite a few folks have been very angry with you, and that you had friends come in defense. I know this won’t come as any surprise. Each of us has our detractors. And so what?
One day some of these folks may share themselves with you. It’s not my business to do it. They were not trying to be gossipers, and they didn’t publish accusations. Regardless, when I heard the emotion I was prompt to point out your hard earned credibility, and that you are one of the good guys. My advice was that if you offer help they’d be fools not to suck you into the vortex of this still-in-progress startup.
Marvin Shilmer
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“I am looking forward to a frank explanation of who comprise the peanut gallery and what they did to merit the pejorative.”
slimboyfat,
My usage of “peanut gallery” is speaking of a near mob-mentality where the most apparent reason for response is unguided emotion and/or speculation based on something less than firsthand information.
If people don’t like my usage, that's too bad. I don’t care if folks like it or not. It’s what it looked like to me at first glance, and it’s what I concluded and then asserted after and only after reaching out for more firsthand information.
Marvin Shilmer
PS: I did inquire about who is Julia. I found out this person was one of the two who responsibly set up Facebook accounts. She's not part of AAWA's Board, but she is a volunteer and was doing work for AAWA when setting up that particular Facebook account.
