Constructive feedback for AAWA leadership (IMHO)

by besty 141 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “More gets done when a goal is established to help rather than to destroy.”

  brinjen,

  You’re precisely right about that.

  Accordingly, AAWA was not conceived to destroy Watchtower. AAWA was birthed to help people by reducing—if not stopping—abuse at the hand of Watchtower teaching and policy.

  That is the mission. It has not changed. The whole thing was established to help people, including helping the relatively small number of individuals who’ve been carrying a huge burden by lending them a hand.

  Given time and competent support it’s hopelessly naïve—not that you are naïve—to think any new group would fail to find its feet, including reevaluation of its name if need be.

  Marvin Shilmer
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  brinjen

  Marvin... true. In a lot of ways you need to find out what doesn't work first in order to find what is the most effective. I'm confident they can still succeed.
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  Marvin Shilmer

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  Personal anecdote about Cedars

  A few months ago I needed the services of a relatively rare professional service. I put the word out understanding my request would cost a few thousand dollars. The purpose of this work was to produce work that everyone here—and many elsewhere—could benefit from. This was not a financial investment for monetary gain. It was a financial investment for benevolence. As it turns out, I like to help people. It feels good. It’s worth money to me, and much more.

  I had no idea at the time that Cedars was in a position to handle my business proposition. He stood to make some serious money. And you know what? I was fine with that. I knew what I needed was going to cost me, and I wanted to not only get the work done but I needed it done by the most competent professional available.

  Prior to this event Cedars had very much been taken aback by my frankness in this very forum. He had, in effect, tried to counsel me about my conduct and in return I basically blew him off in pretty blunt terms. This upset Cedars, and as usual I didn’t care.

  So how did Cedars respond to my later need for professional services? Rather than contracting with me he gave me direct access to his sub-contractors along with permission for them to deal directly with me. I did not ask this of Cedars and did not expect this of Cedars. It just happened to be that Cedars ran a business that could supply the product I needed, and he cut himself out of any monetary gain once he knew the benevolent nature of this particular piece of work.

  Cedars acted as he did because he’s a full grown and competent adult, and because he wants to and enjoys helping people. He’s not arrogant. He’s just finding his way like the rest of us. He’s not beyond making stupid mistakes. He’s just like every other competent adult I’ve ever known. Like the rest, he does his share of dumb things. And so what? Right now Cedars is working hard for the benefit of persons here who’ve all but burned him alive. He understands hurt. He understands fear. He understands that he’s no better than the rest of us. For this reason he puts up with people like me who offended him when he was new out of the box.

  This is the Cedars I know. This is the Cedars I am compelled to share my thoughts with whether its agreement or disagreement. This is the Cedars that I know as a full grown adult. This is the man I know who wants to help us all despite ourselves.

  Marvin Shilmer
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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “I'm confident they can still succeed.”

  brinjen,

  Of course they can succeed. The JWN peanut gallery has not changed that. Unfortunately though some good ideas have been put forth, more than anything else the JWN group has discouraged people and wasted a few folks time who’d rather not have wasted it here. The hope was that constructive ideas and volunteers would emerge. Both these objects were achieved. Then The Crusade began afresh.

  Success or failure of the AAWA initiative is unrelated to what goes on here.

  Marvin Shilmer
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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “No one leaves a cult because of logic and arguments…”

  Speaking from personal experience helping many folks among Jehovah’s Witnesses, I can say without any doubt whatsoever that logical argumentation is very influential for intelligent yet undereducated persons.

  There are many intelligent yet undereducated persons within the community of Jehovah’s Witnesses. One large hole in their education is training in logical construction and refutation. Because intelligent persons are eager to learn and because logical construction is something that takes learning, then exposure to logical argumentation helps this segment of the Jehovah’s Witness community. Once these learn basics in logical form and truth tables they realize a whole new world of understanding, and this causes an awakening to what Watchtower is all about. One teaching to another, logical analysis deconstructs all the junk Watchtower asserts and it’s seen for what it is.

  Marvin Shilmer
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  Simon

  No one leaves a cult because of logic and arguments

  What I meant by that was, people don't begin the process because of logic just as they don't join the WTS because of logic. Since when did logic and reason have anything whatsoever to do with religion?

  Yes, when you have doubts and start looking into things then you need information but the information doesn't make you do that initial 'questioning' because of the conditioned response. I think there is a trigger, something that happens (usually personal experience or experience of someone they care about) that makes people start doubting and that is when they start looking for answers. Once people start looking, they "find", especially now in the internet age.
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  Simon

  Of course they can succeed. The JWN peanut gallery has not changed that. Unfortunately though some good ideas have been put forth, more than anything else the JWN group has discouraged people and wasted a few folks time who’d rather not have wasted it here. The hope was that constructive ideas and volunteers would emerge. Both these objects were achieved. Then The Crusade began afresh.

  Ehem ...

  I think you're laying way too much blame on the "JWN peanut gallery". Let's be honest: the AAWA fucked up monumentally. That wasn't us - that was all the AAWA. Please place the blame where it deserves to be placed.

  If any time was wasted it was utterly and completely due to them through their own actions and I'm sure the people who've been exposed and put at risk appreciate now being called 'a waste of time' to add insult to injury.

  How much of our time have the AAWA wasted? Plenty. Trust me, we'd rather not have wasted it on this shit. All of it could have been easily avoided if they AAWA had ever shown the slightest inclination to LISTEN to what people were telling them but they dont seem to want any advice.

  There are still lots of things unanswered:

  Is the facebook group still open? If so, why? Who has control of this group? Is it everyone in the AAWA or an individual in the AAWA or someone who is just loosely associated with the AAWA? Is it one of the people who bulk added people to the list? Are they still trusted by the AAWA? If so, why?

  Who is actually running the AAWA? Is it a few individuals in control or a group? Why can't the group make decisions when decisions are needed?

  Do the AAWA feel accountable at all for their actions?

  Do the AAWA feel like they owe anyone an explanation of what they do or why?

  Are there safeguards and controls to protect volunteers and victims information? Can you understand why people would be sceptical of trusting the AAWA given what has happend so far?

  There are lots of REASONS why the AAWA is not currently being supported or even trusted by the people who a week ago were happy and more than willing, eager to support it. All those reasons lie at the feet of the AAWA and they alone can address them. As before I would encourage the AAWA to get their act together and stop trying to blame other people for everything, do some soul searching and sort things out.

  I dont doubt there are many good people with good intentions but all that really counts is what the organization does. It desperately needs to start doing better and they need to learn how to communicate better.
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  Simon

  Oh, and I should add: I also think the AAWA has let down it's own board and seem to have hung Cedars out to dry.

  Yes, I don't think he responded to some things very well but at least he was trying. The silence from everyone else has been deafening (apart from Juan who tried early on).

  Seriously, the AAWA just need to give a big collective bitch-slap to whichever retarded-muppet was behind the HMS Titanic Facebook group idea and then we can all move on.

  Best advice I could give to the AAWA: Be more selective in the support you accept. Some people will ruin your name and reputation if you allow them to act in your name. It's acceptable to respond to offers of help with "sorry, we think you're an obsessive retard that will make us look like nutcases".
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  EdenOne

  Thank you Marvin for sheding some light on this matter.

  Eden
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  slimboyfat

  Well besty's points made a lot of sense to me, while I confess I am unmoved by Marvin's argument. I have never been impressed by self-important, "there are things you don't know about and can't possibly understand" kind of rhetoric. Especially when Marvin talks about things we have witnessed with our own eyes and gets it completely wrong. He states:

  Cedars is working hard for the benefit of persons here who’ve all but burned him alive

  Anyone who thinks that's an accurate and fair description of what happened here over the past couple of weeks lacks sound judgement in my view. So consequently I am not inclined to accept their presentation of other matters I don't have direct experience of. As Simon points out above, Cedars' problems have all been self-inflicted and lamentably unnecessary and avoidable.