New Pope about to come out

by new22day 303 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • EntirelyPossible

    Gays can't marry for the same reason yu can't make a square triangle

    Gay people can get married. Does this mean you don't grasp math AND current events, or just math?

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Just two adults, stillthinking? How provincial of you. Perhaps you know nothing of the cultures that engage in polyamory or the ancient practices of the Spartans or current practices of the Pashtun. Stop being such a narrow-minded bigot.

    Here's the thing I said. I don't give a sod what Religions think about marriage (they all have their own beliefs)...or for that matter whether people used to think it was ok to marry children...or if peoples beliefs allow for multiple wives. I already pointed that out to YOU. That marriage is not just defined by what catholics believe it to be. OR ANY OTHER RELIGION. Because when it comes to religion they ALL think they are right because god is guiding them. And they all have different ideas about what being right is, based on special messages or insights from their gods.

    Morally we have evolved a lot from the days when people thought it was ok to have child brides (except for some religions and belief systems). Marriage is a LEGAL contract between two concenting adults (in our cultures). And no religion should have a say about that. They need to mind their own business and stick to telling their sheep what to do and not the rest of the world who don't give a rats arse what they believe until they start to inflict their beliefs on others, or when they protect child abusers and what they do effects innocent children, or when it costs women their lives. Thats when people take interest in bigotted religious behaviours and beliefs.

    Of course Islam allows for more than one wife. But thats because Islam is so intertwined with Govenment you cannot seperate the two. THATS what you get when govt is not seperate. Since you seem to like the idea of Religion butting in to everyones lives, maybe you would enjoy living in an Islamic country where their God can tell you what to do and how to live.

    And quite frankly, any culture that still thinks it is ok to marry off children needs to evolve and loose their disgusting ideas.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    That the Church takes a dim view of gay marriage, for example, seems to be something of keen interest.

    The only reason it is of because the church is making a concerted world wide effort to butt into peoples lives and inflict their bogotted beliefs on everyone. They are interfering in Government and legislation.

    I recently got an email from a catholic woman who wanted me to sign a petition to stop same sex marriage in our country. This was endorsed by pope Benedict. THIS is the type of thing I am talking about. It is my business, because they MAKE it my business. They are trying to keep our laws in line with their religious beliefs. Well...screw that. They do not have the right to dictate to others what they can and cannot do just because they believe their invisible god doesn't like gay marriage...all of that just to appease their god. and try to control what others, who may or may not believe in their god, can and can't do.

    If it was just about what they believe...their followers are already in line with them. And if they aren't thats their problem. But trying to mess around with laws is inflicting their beliefs on people who are not interested in their religion or beliefs is unreasonable.

    Would the catholic church support Islamic belief to have multiple wives in your country? Would you? Apparently their god says we can.

    Personally, I'm of two minds about whether people should legally be allowed to have more than one wife. I mean, if they are all consenting adults, why not? It's their business. And in that case, women should be allowed to have more than one husband.

    The problems I can see with that law is a husband marrying multiple wives (or vice versa) and the other wives or husbands not being happy with it. So having one legal partner really is a protection for the other partner. But it does put limits on people who may want to marry a lot. Why the hell anyone would want heaps of marriage parntners I do not know...but you know...some people do...

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Didn't you believe in a literal devil only just over 10 years ago cofty? How medieval of you, one might be tempted to say.

    I did...LOL It was very medieval of me. Funny what religious belief can to do an otherwise sane mind.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Tater-T...I swear there is no one that pope cannot look like...LOL

  • designs

    The JW Leadership and Catholics are almost identical on their restricted views of marriage, women's roles in the religion, Church authority etc..

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    They are designs. And their followers try to claim that they are fee to follow them or not....however, that claim doesn't gell with the fact that their religion (catholic) tries to get involved with changing laws, or maintaining laws so that their beliefs will be adhered to. Not only by their followers, but by everyone. Even people with differing beliefs.

    They aren't just happy trying to control their own flock...they want to control what entire populations around the world can and cannot do by law.

  • designs

    st- The RCC was in high gear during this past national election.

  • dgp

    I'm a Latin American and a former devout Catholic, and I find it interesting that no one in the thread addressed the political aspect of Francis having been elected as pope. I would consider that very, very important because, whatever the man's past or his views, the church he now leads matters. For better or for worse.

    The Economist published two good articles on this (and The Economist is secular).

    The fact that a worldwide multinational has been entrusted to a man from the South is relevant in itself. Someone mentioned (I think it was JgNat) that the Catholic Church moves as fast as molasses. Yes, that's so true. Now, how come that in that church they did appoint someone from the South, as opposed to the International Monetary Fund, where they appointed Christine Lagard because she was French, and left Agustín Carstens out because he was Mexican, as if most Europeans (Nordics and Germans, but not Icelanders excluded) were in a position to tell anyone what good economic policy is.

    There was some talk that a Filipino would be made pope, Cardinal Tagle, or Cardinal Turkson, from Ghana. Now, I don't mean to do the verbal jousting Talesin (Hiya!) doesn't like, but Flying High mentioned the Anglicans. Can you guys imagine a black man as the archbishop of Canterbury? Or a Filipino?

    Maybe because of the fact that 42% of all Catholics live in Latin America, or because Europeans are so secular that they can't offer much to the church, the Catholic Church appointed a man from the south to the top post. In doing so, it was the first big multinational to acknowledge the fact that power is moving south in the kingdom of this world.

    Personally, I find other things very interesting. The new pope is a Jesuit, the first Jesuit ever to be Pope, and this despite the fact that the Company of Jesus was like the Church's State Department. Now they are in retreat because the Opus Dei was smarter. How come they made a Jesuit pope? And then, a Jesuit who is not a Liberation Theologian. That must mean nothing to you guys, but it does mean a lot in Latin America.

    The fact that the new Pope was in bad terms with Cristina Fernández in Argentina also means a lot. It's almost as bad as when the sandinistas in Nicaragua had to put up with the fact that their former bitter enemy had been made a cardinal, and was thereafter untouchable.

    For some time, the church and the left have coexisted in Latin America, each one trying to outsmart the other. Back in 1975, a Venezuelan thinker said that the Church had found out that it barely survived in free and open societies, but it thrived exhuberantly in places like Poland or Hungary, where the church was the only non-communist thing that existed. And it provided relief when, say, your child died; you can't go to a burial and quote Marx in the hope that this will relieve the pain.

    The Venezuelan said that the Church had come upon the divine surprise: the Marxists were not the worst enemy. The salesmen were, and the Left could be very handy in pushing them out of the temple.

    In 1975, the left wasn't in power. Now it is in most of Latin America. And the church appoints a pope from here. Obviously that has the effect of reinforcing the church before those governments. That has immense meaning here. Why do you think so many presidents managed to go to the Vatican?

    Back in 1975, Catholics were not as numerous in the US as they are now. That also matters.

    Now the Catholic Chruch is also in a position to better fight the Watchtowers and the evangelicals and et cetera. That should have an effect on the Watchtower as well, since now much of the Watchtower flock is made of people of Spanish descent. Until when will the Watchtower be able not to have men from the south in their governing body? I think that would be a very good question. The Watchtower is an American thing, and we know it the minute we see it. Maybe that will have to change?

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Maybe because of the fact that 42% of all Catholics live in Latin America, or because Europeans are so secular that they can't offer much to the church, the Catholic Church appointed a man from the south to the top post. In doing so, it was the first big multinational to acknowledge the fact that power is moving south in the kingdom of this world.

    I did mention this earlier in this thread...and that fact that they are leaving in their droves. The catholic church cannot afford to lose these people. And I agree, europeans are moving away form catholicism. So who would they be romancing? Also from what FHN mentioned about them loving to bring p rotestant ministers into the church. Of course they do, since many of them are moving to the protestant religions because of their poor treatment of women.

    They are a fair chunk of their income...they are worth chasing, god forbid ALL their business walks out the door. This pope makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. And none of them are about a god.

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