San Francisco or Bay Area Members?

by nibbled 109 Replies latest jw friends

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Hey there nibbled.

    My wife and I no longer believe in a higher power. If a "higher power" decided to show him/her/it self and was also not a despot, I'd be all ears. But I don't think that's too likely.

    Having said that, I have no desire to cram my lack of belief down anyone's throat. So, if you'd like to get together and enjoy good food, drink and conversation that doesn't require a belief in God, we're game. But I totally understand if you're more comfortable in the company of believers.

    Here's something to chew on. Aguest, aka Shelby, is a BIG TIME believer. Her God talks to her on a regular basis. When I found out she was planning on attending Flipper's Lake Tahoe Apostafest last summer, I almost didn't go because I thought the "discomfort" level would be too high. Well, her online persona is quite a bit different than Shelby in the flesh. This atheist and Shelby got along just fine in person.

    Best regards,

    om

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    MUAH to you, too, dear OM... and to the dear Missus... and PEACE (truly) to you, both!

    A doulos of Christ,

    SA, who respects others' beliefs and disbeliefs... and only "goes there" offline when it's invited...

  • nibbled
    nibbled

    Balaamsass - Let me know, ditto. Your username? Love the donkey, Is it Sass or Ass, or both?

    LisaRose - We'll make a plan for Berkley, this weekend or after next?

    AGuest - Take Jehovah and replace the J with a Y and the V with a W. Basically similar to how a European would pronounce Jehovah. Here's some Hebrew guy talking about the difference in the sounds. Apparently he plays the flute too. I just went looking for a video for the sound. (BELOW) First time he says it he emphasizes the two different sounds to make his point (Yehowah vs. Yehovah) but it's a more natural breathing elegant. I generally practice breathing it, rather than trying to pronounce. Yeh- ow - ah as breathe in , the moment of breath caught in transition , breath out. After I realized I knew the name, suddenly I found out other people already knew too... Course that's how a search works, since the internet and Google.

    The sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2uaZ4NgLk0

    jgnat - don't have time right now to read each link, but I scanned them. The points of why it's Yehowah over "Yahweh" begins with simply that the Hebrew poetry demonstrates a three syllable name. Also ancient versions of Hebrew theophoric names (which over time were shortened in a sort of slurring manner) were such as Yehoshua, or Yehonathan. (Others even include the "w" in an older versions still.)

    1. Yahweh leaves poetry not poetic, a syllable short, see David/Semitic psalms.
    2. Yahweh means that the name no longer has meaning, David uses "Yah" as the Hebrew short form of the whole name. The Hebrew practice is to cut out or slur away the syllables in the middle. Yahweh puts the "Yah" in the front and that's not how it's done. Compare Yehowshua to Yehoshua to Yeshua to Y'shua.
    3. Yahweh leaves all the theophoric names passed down to today no longer being based on the name.

    Please see my link, and let me know if there are edits needed. I wrote for me, and now am sharing: http://seekyehowah.org/god/yehowah/

    "This [Yehowah] is the correct pronunciation of the tetragramaton, as is clear from the pronunciation of proper names in the First Testament (FT), poetry, fifth-century Aramaic documents, Greek translations of the name in the Dead Sea Scrolls and church fathers." (George Wesley Buchanan, "The Tower of Siloam", The Expository Times 2003; 115: 37; pp. 40, 41)

    AGuest - I LOVE you. Seriously. I dig this convo.

    Okay, the Romanization of the Hebrews, let's not use their sound. They killed Christ, and sacked Jerusalem (the city of peace founded by God, if I recall, is the literal meaning), and then proceeded to slaughter hundreds of thousands of first-century Christians. And, Rome didn't even exist when the Hebrews were given the name. The "waw" is a "w" which when you say that letter you say literally "double - u" which is the how to pronounce the letter. For me, I kept trying to recall the variables for the name, and there I defaulted back to it's not the "four vowels" of Jospheus' description if it were "V" sound (or letter) rather than "W". Basically the letters are all right and there are different sounds which people are trying to determine the "right" right one, but they are all very similar and are breathing.

    Ah Ha! Found something for you, you too Jgnat:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEvdqPMvccY

    I told you I'd give you a "game" AGuest, next clue. Yehudah.

    "The words Jew (Yehudi in Hebrew) and Judaism (Yahadut) come from the name Judah, or Yehuda as it is pronounced in Hebrew."

    AGuest, I thought you were gonna simmer on it. With love in my heart, I offer "simmer down!"

    Pray honey. Don't fight me... Pray. Simmer. I didn't fight it because there was no one to fight. But I ignored it for months on months. In that time, the pieces all seemed to just be there in my mind when I was ready to consider it. I put the pieces together like a puzzle. A puzzle which has defined variables and enough pieces with which we know we can discern the answer. That's the link above. I'm open to discussion. But I'm not going to change every Jewish name passed down to today to suit your JaHVeH. Haven't you ever wondered why there were so many similar names in the scriptures? Like Yehoshaphat? (Iehoshaphat) There is a reason. He persevered it for people by giving them his name.

    How do you modify Yehoshua's name to fit his name with his Father's? I know you don't use Jesus (nor do I, unless using it for common understanding). That's what got me. Jehovah had nothing to do with Jesus. All meaning was lost. So much for "the name above every other name"?

    AGuest will you consider the write up I made long before I knew I'd meet you? Posted at least once above. (Seek Yehowah!) Then, will you please give me the gift of your response to that? You're giving me your "what he told me", but that doesn't mean I can do anything with that. That means I have to take your word for it. I believe before our Father does anything he reveals it through his prophets, and he has the word of God, and he gave us the Word of God to reinforce it. So I can't take your word that something is true despite who you say it comes from—otherwise I'm straight back being Watched by the Tower, stone me, please! No, you would teach me that it's the spirit who guides us into all truth, and he does that by revealing the Word of God to us. It's in there. Yes, we get by with a little help from our friends, we get validation, and study and learn together, and secular history provides some of that too... but it's about facts we can trust from sources we can trust. Not just one of us, but all of us.

    xoxo

  • OnTheWayOut
  • nibbled
    nibbled

    @OnTheWayOut who is Sybil?

  • OnTheWayOut
  • nibbled
    nibbled

    Funny. Just posted on my music thread. Here you are posting music videos.

    I'm more Where do Fallen Angels go when it comes to borderline hair era.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    "Sybil" was supposedly a woman who suffered from multiple personality disorder, dear Nibs (peace to you!). Supposedly a victim of severe child abuse at the hands of her stepmother it was claimed that a "study" revealed that she had as many as 12 different "personalities." A moive about it came out in the 70's I think (maybe the 80s). My understanding is that recently it's was determined that the entire thing was hoax and "Sybil" never existed. OTWO offered it as an explanation for me. He does stuff like that from time to time... contrary to his public statements that he wouldn't. Ah, well... what can you do? Most people never REALLY change. I digress.

    I told you I'd give you a "game" AGuest, next clue. Yehudah. "The words Jew (Yehudi in Hebrew) and Judaism (Yahadut) come from the name Judah, or Yehuda as it is pronounced in Hebrew."

    Yes, I am familiar with all of those terms. I realize that folks today spell them with the "Y" (i.e., "Yehudim"... but my Lord transliterates the yodh as a "j". So, he would spell it "Jah' uDi"... "Jah' uDut"... and Judah as "Jah Uda".

    Haven't you ever wondered why there were so many similar names in the scriptures? Like Yehoshaphat? (Iehoshaphat). There is a reason. He persevered it for people by giving them his name.

    To be honest, I didn't. My early questions had to do with myself, my household, the WTBTS, the Bible, the anointing, what I was supposed to be "doing", others in my life, and things like that. Don't get me wrong: I had TONS of questions. But never about the similar names. I came to learn of that when my Lord revealed HIS name to me because, again, he said HIS name glorifies the FATHER'S name. After that initial period, I don't really ask many questions any more, per se. I learned that there really was no reason FOR me to ask... that all I needed to know would be given me "at the proper time," when HE chose. So I learned to trust him and go with what I had for the time, until more came. Wonderfully, more... MUCH more... has come ever since and pretty quickly.

    Usually, the answer is provided before I can even fully bring up the question. Before I get 2-3 words in, he responds. Because, as he said, "The Father already KNOWS what [I] need... even before I ASK Him." And he has proven to me that that is absolutely true. So why ask/wonder? That means (to me) that the Father is withholding something from me that I should have. How can THAT be, though? If I should HAVE it, will I not RECEIVE it? So, I learned that the only thing I NEEDED to ask about... was as to the kingdom and IT'S righteousness... that IT be opened to me. And it was. Because... I asked.

    How do you modify Yehoshua's name to fit his name with his Father's? I know you don't use Jesus (nor do I, unless using it for common understanding). That's what got me. Jehovah had nothing to do with Jesus. All meaning was lost. So much for "the name above every other name"?

    I will respond to that by sharing with you what my Lord gave me as to the history of the Jewish language in this regard, for instance, in accordance with the name "Yehoshaphat." According to my Lord (sorry, but I can only state the truth) the accurate rendering of that name is "Jah'e Shua'Phat"... and means "JAH's Judgment Saves/is Salvation... "Salvation by JAH's Judgments." Similar to what you might state as "Yehoshuah" (Joshua)... which also an error (it is "Jah'eShua"... or even "Yah'eshua", if you prefer).

    He said the prefix "Ye"... is actually, "JAH" (even "Yah", if you prefer, although that's not entire accurate) and that it got to "Ye"... when those scribes, who determined that God's name was too sacred to utter, let alone write, removed the "ah" sound. So, you sometimes see "Y'hoshaphat," "Y'hoshua," "Y'shua", and spellings like that. He said that some disagreed... and put the sound BACK (remember, no vowels)... but unfortunately, used the "eh" sound, rather than the "ah" sound (sort of like how some in this country say "car"... while in another area they say "cah"... but both mean an automobile). He said they did this initially by using the schwa ( ? )... again, because of the perception of the name being too sacred to write... and so you will see spellings such as:

    Y ? hoshaphat, Y ? eShua, Y ? Shua, Y ? hoshua, etc.

    He said that after that, folks who said the name was NOT to sacred to utter OR spell... "put it back"... but replaced the schwa with the letter "e", so that folks today THINK the sound is "Yeh"... when it is really "Yah"... and spelled (today, because the modern transliteration of the yodh is the letter "j", not "y")... "Jah."

    So, starting with the name of the MOST Holy One of Israel... JAHVEH... which is taken from the spelling "JHVH" (and not "YHWH")... and means "JAH breathes ("veh") into existence armies (of spirit beings)/causes armies (of spirit beings) to come into existence (by His breath)"... my Lord's name... "JAH eShua"... which means "JAH Saves/Salvation of JAH"... glorifies the name of the Father. In that it itself, his name proclaims HIM (Jah'eShua) as the ONE by means of which the MOST Holy One of Israel, JaHVeH... saves. The One through WHOM the salvation of JAH comes. Which is why he said to the Jews that their house was abandoned to them... UNTIL they said "Blessed is HE... who comes in the NAME of God." That name... is JAH (of Armies).

    I know you don't use Jesus (nor do I, unless using it for common understanding). That's what got me. Jehovah had nothing to do with Jesus. All meaning was lost. So much for "the name above every other name"?

    Yes! And no, I can't use it. It sticks in my throat, now that I know the true name. I can barely utter it. It's like me calling someone named John... Justin. Just cause his name starts with a "J" and ends with an "n"... and I'm too lazy (and disrespectful) to find out... and/or use... his real name. I don't fault others for using it; that's between him and them. And I set it out between brackets when I come across it in verses (because he's often reading along so that I know what was TRULY written/meant... and HE won't say that name. Just silently skips over it. So...).

    will you consider the write up I made long before I knew I'd meet you? Posted at least once above. (Seek Yehowah!)

    I did, dear one. Indeed, I have read virtually every word you have posted since we've become acquainted here. I mean, what if I HAVE missed something? I am not so arrogant or self-assured that I won't even CONSIDER what someone else has to share on these matters. If it's TRUTH, then it's TRUTH... and that is all I am interested in: truth. The Truth that is Christ, as well as the truth that comes forth FROM him.

    Then, will you please give me the gift of your response to that?

    Of course, yes! I believe I did already, though, but perhaps on another thread. I will look for it and post the link. I'm sorry but you've posted in several places and so I might be accurately keeping up.

    You're giving me your "what he told me", but that doesn't mean I can do anything with that. That means I have to take your word for it.

    I'm sorry, dear one, but that's really all I CAN give you; I don't know ANY of these things on my own, truly. I only know them because he TELLS me them. I realize that some only want to hear what other "men" have to say on issues... but I truly don't know what other men say. I am not a scholar - I am just a servant... and so, rather than relying on my OWN understanding... or that of other humans... I rely on holy spirit and the anointing I received by means of that (1 John 2:26-29). I'm sorry, but that's truly all I have, dear one.

    You do NOT, however, have to take MY word for it, indeed, for ANYTHING I share. I can only put it out there. You can CHOOSE to check it against whatever YOU wish/need to, whether that be what others say... or Christ himself says. My advice is always, ALWAYS to go to him and ask him for yourself. First, foremost, and always. I would give you the same advice: go to him, ask HIM... and then put faith in what HE tells you... if you can. If not... well, you could ASK for "more" faith, so that you can (hear/put faith in what you hear). But only you can decide whether to do that or not. I can't tell you... or anyone... what you MUST do.

    I believe before our Father does anything he reveals it through his prophets,

    Not any more, dear one. Ever since my Lord came in the flesh, the Father has been revealing things to His people through that One. First, when he was here... after that, through the spirit... holy spirit... the "oil of exultation"... that that One pours out. (Hebrews 1:1, 2; John 7:37-39; Acts 2:2-4, 17, 18).

    and he has the word of God, and he gave us the Word of God to reinforce it.

    I am not quite sure what you mean here. I perceive you mean the Bible and then Christ... or Christ and then the Bible. For me, it's just Christ, the Word of God (John 1:1, 14; 17:17; Hebrews 13:12; Revelation 19:13). I don't eheck what he/others tell me by the Bible; I check what the Bible states... and others tell me... by him, the Holy Spirit and Spirit of Truth (2 Corinthians 3:16; John 14:6, 23; Romans 8:9, 10; Proverbs 8:4-7). I only refer to the Bible for those who still need to see what I share "in writing"... because they are still walking by SIGHT... rather than by FAITH.

    Those who walk by FAITH are those who are in the NEW Covenant, those for whom the following applies:

    “The days are coming,” declares JaHVeH,
    “when I will make a new covenant
    with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
    It will not be like the covenant
    I made with their ancestors
    when I took them by the hand
    to lead them out of Egypt,
    because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,”
    declares JaHVeH.

    This is the covenantI will make with the people of Israel
    after that time,” declares JaHVeH.
    I will put mylawin their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know JaHVeH,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares JaHVeH.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34

    And that's all I can tell you, dear one. This thing has occurred with me, literally, by means of the mediator OF that New Covenant, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who is my Lord and Master... and the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAHVEH. My means of the spirit I received from that One... whose voice I hear... I know the few things I do. I hear them when he speaks them to me. I do not expect anyone to accept or agree with that truth... but it IS the truth.

    I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel... and those who go with, and a doulos of Christ,

    SA

  • zed is dead
    zed is dead

    I am with you OTWO. If you can talk to god, an imaginary friend isn't much of a stretch.

    zed

  • nibbled
    nibbled

    AGuest, I'm glad that we have the forum of writing because I can't imagine doing this in person. I'd get so excited and we'd probably both spontaneously combust (into 12 personalities?) hehe

    Okay, so I feel like I'm getting "your Lord" whose words jump straight out of your mouth. I'm trying to get to your mind to your heart and ask you to engage with me. I don't need to connect to my Father or his Son though any other person, thus, I'm interested in you. Your heart, the soil on which the seeds are planted. I want to get to know you, which is love, but all I'm getting from you is what your Lord told you.

    I often fear that people will take my inquiries and feel offense, I am so happy that that seems not to be happening with us. Because I am very interested and am searching for the words to elicit the response. Thank you for allowing me.

    I am asking you—you reason with me that your Lord told you that the spelling of all this things begin with "J". Then you went on to speak about "when those scribes, who determined that God's name was too sacred to utter, let alone write," and how it is that they altered names—So, I'm asking you, or if you so desire, even your Lord through you—why is it that cares about what the scribes did to his word, if he would choose to use something that wasn't even used when the scribes did their work?

    In other words, why would he use the letter "J" to represent his name (which predates scribes) and then explain to you about how scribes screwed things up?

    So, starting with the name of the MOST Holy One of Israel... JAHVEH... which is taken from the spelling "JHVH" (and not "YHWH")

    AGuest, I cannot wrap my head around how it is that he would wait until the 13th century C.E. to have his name be able to rendered.

    The "J" came to be in the 13th century.

    That doesn't make any sense.

    So, please ask him or explain to me why use a letter which didn't exist?

    Or, please, before the letter "J" existed, what letter did he tell you was there, when the name was transliterated? His Son was fluent in Aramaic Greek and Hebrew, what would he have written?

    Please, ask him, to be clear, how was his name transliterated from the original Hebrew to the original Latin alphabet, the old Latin alphabet, and the classical Latin alphabet?

    Forgive me for pressing so hard, but before I can accept your 17th century truth, I'm asking how it is that you or your Lord explains what his name was for the previous 2,400 years. (Latin alphabet dates from 7th century BC, as I understand.)

    So, right now, I'm not interested in more and more of what he says, because he sounds like a voice you're hearing which is explaining to you what the scribes did 2500 years ago, but then tells you how to spell his name using letters only hundreds of years old.

    Just ask him how his Son spelled his name while he was on earth?

    I'm sorry, but since I can pronounce the name, and know all the letters used to represent it from Hebrew to Latin and Greek, I'm not really concerned with 17th century English.

    Please, with all due respect.

    Part of me right now is simply evaluating if I should listen to what comes from your mouth, as you claim to speak as a prophet and yet what you say is not valid in antiquity.

    Further our Father wishes us to know him, and in the truest sense that is to seek truth from it's first utterances. Thus, while my Father nor his Son speak to me audibly, from generation upon generation through the hands of many fallible humans scribes and heresies, down to modern history and burning at the stake and translating the word so it have so many subtle variances, what remains true is that we were told to dig as if searching for hid treasure.

    The 17th century English, bastardization of Babel, isn't sufficient for my desire to know ??????.

    Just cause his name starts with a "J" and ends with an "n"

    Moving forward, I now realize I have no idea what you call your Lord, the man commonly referred to as "Jesus"...?

    So you call him the Christ, I see.

    That's a Greek title, Christos.

    You're okay with that?

    Why are you not okay with his Greek name then?

    IEOUS became JESUS.

    You are okay with I becoming Y becoming J in the dilution of linguistics since Babel, but you're not okay with the same progression when applied to his Son's name?

    Why his the Son's name more precious than the Father's?

    I'm sorry, dear one, but that's really all I CAN give you

    I respect that you hear voices, and I am grateful to you that you respect me testing your spirit to see if it comes from our Father.

    I am however, not asking for what your spirit says, while my spirit doesn't speak to me in audible voices, I have access to him directly—therefore, I do not need you to tell me "the truth". I can go directly to the Father through his Son via the holy spirit to be taught, just as you can. Therefore I am here only and simply to know you, my sister.

    Thus, you can, if you are willing or if your spirit is willing, give me more. I am not asking for your spirit to speak, I'm asking for your heart, or your mind. Our Father examines our hearts, and knows our minds, therefore there must be something in there—I would like to know what is in yours.

    Just like the soil which the seed falls upon may be many different conditions, and it isn't just one upon which fruit may be cultivated, what we learn from the holy spirit from whom we are taught (unless you encounter an unholy spirit) settles into our hearts and minds.

    That is what I am desperately, now, attempting to access. I want to know you. Please let me in?

    Okay, so you quote Jeremiah 31. If you believe the word of God, then you cannot take those verses out of their context. There is a reference in the chapter where he gave us witnesses. You're a lawyer, could you please review the contract of Jeremiah 31, and review the clauses and it's intent with it's original dates. Then, please, can you tell me that you qualify as one of the parties as expressly and explicitly stipulated?

    I only refer to the Bible for those who still need to see what I share "in writing"... because they are still walking by SIGHT... rather than by FAITH.

    Before I'm allowed to take in knowledge from a third party from the voice of a spirit I do not know, I am required to test that spirit. Testing that spirit requires that what the spirit says stands up to the written and fleshly Word of God.

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