Israel in spirit - he is not a Jew who is one on the outside; he is a Jew who is one on the INSIDE
Yes, dear Nibs. Again, peace to you AND my apologies for mistaking you. I hope my explanation sufficed. If not, I understand – I don’t like it when folks accuse me of being someone I am not, either. However, I do try to set such matters straight asap in order to avoid confusion (which doesn’t necessarily work... at least, not with the truly “confused”). Well, okay then! A lot to (potentially) respond to, given your several posts. I will try to get to all that I can. Please note, I am not good with flowery words or sentiments - my social graces are sorely lacking. I'm pretty much a "what you see... and hear... is what you get" person. So please, do not mistake my forthrightness for anything untoward, if you can. I use no "tone" or snark here. Indeed, there are less then 5 people on this board who I reserve such for... and you are not one of them.
Now then:
This is about people, the Jews, living up to their "name". I get frustrated how it is that people can't see he was chastising the Jews, not opening it up for other people to become like the Jews in a "spiritual sense".
Why does such frustrate you? No snark, just curious. I mean, either folks will hear... or they will refrain. But what has that to do with folks like us? I mean, I’m just a messenger, so why take it personal when folks don’t get it? It’s when they maliciously contend... or falsely accuse of bad/wrong motive, even when their accusations have been addressed... that I get frustrated. I mean, most of us here were JWs at one time... and either believed what we were pushing... or at least went along with it to some degree or another. But most of the “householders” we met didn’t get nasty: they just politely declined. Here, though, polite declination just doesn’t seem to be a skill that some possess.
We were each created by our Father in heaven, and each have a life to live. We shouldn't be clamoring to make ourselves "Jews" in a spiritual sense, nor Israelites.
I would agree... but I’m not sure how you got that that was my position from what I stated. I simply meant that just because one is circumcised in the flesh, etc., doesn’t mean one is a Jew. That you read more than that is... well, curious.
To be a true Jew, as a Jew, you must be circumcised both in and out—in that day. That's all Paul was saying.
Unfortunately, I must disagree with that. Indeed, I believe Paul spoke AGAINST circumcision “out.” Such was not necessary for the nations... or for the Jews who accepted the NEW Covenant. He only had Timothy do so in order not to stumble those who were still pushing it. Now, being circumcised on the INSIDE was and is another matter... and I agree that Paul DID exhort that. Because that IS necessary. Because just as the OUTWARD circumcision once identified a Jew, indeed, an Israelite of ANY tribe... it is the inward “circumcision”... the removal/transcending of the FLESH... that identifies one as a TRUE “Jew” to the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAHVEH.
You don't believe "all scripture is inspired"?
I absolutely do believe all SCRIPTURE was inspired (written while the writer was in spirit, led by holy spirit, and told to write). Yes.
What books have you cut out of the canon as from false prophets and what books have you added?
I’ve cut nothing out; I simply limit my recognition to what is “scripture” to what my Lord did, does, and has told ME is - Moses, the Prophets (including Enoch, Jashar, Barak, and others... which are NOT in the current Bible canon), the Psalms... and the Revelation... as shown at Luke 24:27, 32, 44, 45, and Revelation 1:11, 19. You do realize that there are also Bible canons that include apophrycal books such as Judith, Tobit, the Maccabees, etc., yes? How does that work, exactly? Which Bible “version”, exactly... do you consider to be the “Word” of God?
(You shake my confidence both in the purity of our association, as well as then chink away at one's faith in the Word as the word of God.)
Please take this in the spirit of love with which I offer it... but your confidence shouldn’t be in me... or in the “purity” of our association. I should be in the One appointed to have that confidence... and the primary “one” in your association. I am nothing more than a good for nothing servant and if you are putting your trust in ME... then you haven’t paid attention to the Prophet (Jeremiah)... or the One who spoke to HIM.
Also, the Bible isn’t the word... or Word... of God, dear one. Not by a stretch. The MOST Holy One of Israel only has one Word: His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Indeed, the Bible even SAYS this (John 1:1, 14; 17:17; Hebrews 13:12; Revelation 19:13). I have never seen where it states that “it” is God’s word... OR Word. So, I kind of have to go with what that WORD says about Who the Word is... which the Bible actually corroborates.
You consider Isaiah's prophecy bad? "unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah" — interesting place for that notation in scripture.
I’m not sure how you got that from that I stated.
For those listening to this conversation and who perhaps believe as AGuest that "don't "look" to Paul, [because] some of what he (?) wrote was true and accurate; some was not." I offer that you consider what Paul did not write, and is in scripture. Paul's name is mentioned 130-155 times in the book of Acts. "Jesus" was mentioned by the name 67 times. Of course he was in spirit form and as the resurrected Word of God, and the majority of the instances of "Jesus" name being used in the book of Acts is specifically in chapter 9 in the account of Saul on the road to Damascus, meeting the Christ in spirit, and being called to his ministry.
It IS quite interesting, is it not... that Paul is mentioned twice as many times as my Lord. And CONSIDERABLY more times than any of the 12 (which he was not one of). Wonder why that is... Helps shed some light on why many... indeed, most... follow Paul... than the Lamb... does it not? You’d think Paul was the Christ come again. Unfortunately... well, fortunately, actually... some of us, including myself... consider Paul AFTER Christ.
For example, when Paul said to “judge those on the inside,” we, like many of those in the early Corinthians congregation... and not a few of the Apostles, said, “Ummmm... no, that is NOT what we learned from the Christ himself. To the contrary, HE said to STOP judging. So, no, sorry, Paul, but there’s something “wrong” with YOUR “truth” there. Maybe it’s that it’s YOUR truth... and not Christ’s?” That Paul changed his position about a year later... when in his letter to the Romans he said, “Let us judge one another NO MORE” seems to indicate so (“Oh, wait, oops... say WHAT, Brother Paul? But didn’t you tell the Corinthians TO judge? Didn’t you JUST say...?”).
Dear Paul apparently got himself some NEW “light”, dear one. But the TRUTH... is that truthdoesn’t change. It is the same... today... yesterday... and tomorrow. Just as JAH and Christ are. That OUR understanding changes... doesn’t change truth. It just changes US... and OUR understanding.
I make a note, personally, here. The apostles appointed a 12th to replace Judas, yet Christ himself appointed his apostles while on earth. I respect Paul as being the twelfth apostle, as he was appointed by our Christ, and recognize that the apostle who met the requirements designated by the men left behind is not mentioned in the scripture beyond (basically) being appointed by men.
Interesting. Funny, Paul didn’t call... or consider... himself one of the twelve. And apostle (i.e., “sent one”), yes. Just as James and Jude, my Lord’s brothers in the flesh were. As MANY were. But he wasn’t... and isn’t... one of the 12. Indeed, he himself referred to the “twelve” (1 Corinthians 15:5). And my Christ didn’t call Paul to take the place of a living disciple... but of one he was instrumental in having murdered: Stephen (Acts 8:1, 4; 9:16).
The apostles, meanwhile, all reference Paul in writings,
Surely you realize this is an erroneous statement. Matthew, does not mention him. Lazarus (“John”) does not mention him. As far as I can see, only Peter mentions him... and then briefly. But you have to understand Peter: Paul had called him out for his hypocrisy in front of God and everyone. Peter, being the... ummmmm... sometimes “people pleaser” that he was (and I don’t say this to put down Peter but to state the truth about him, as Paul did)... NEEDED to agree with Paul. Not that Paul was ALWAYS wrong (he often was)... but Peter himself had endorsed Paul way back when... with most of the others mistrusted him. Peter wasn’t a man quick to notice his own... ummmmmm... errors and deficiencies. Paul noticed them, though... and so a very embarrassed Peter needed to make sure he and Paul were on the same “side.” They were, of course, but, again, you have to know Peter.
Of course, I don’t know Peter... but my Lord does. And he explained both Paul AND Peter to me.
and you have to cut a significant portion of canonized scripture out if you find Paul to be a false prophet. You'd have to cut out all 'his' letters, and in it the "great sacred secret" of the body of Christ.
Again, I am not sure how you jump to my finding Paul a false prophet. Paul didn’t claim to BE a prophet... but an apostle. Not the same thing, truly. Paul spoke truth when he spoke by means of holy spirit; unfortunately, his personality didn’t always submit to that – as a former Pharisee/lawyer, he had a lot of “baggage.” And he brought a good deal of it with him in his ministry. BUT... his intentions were good, as was his heart. He learned, eventually, which you can see if you read his letters in the order written... versus how they are presented in the Bible canon.
HOWEVER... you should also know, do you not, that not everything attributed TO Paul was written BY Paul? And I don’t mean literally – I know he suffered from blindness. No, I mean, again, the “false stylus.” It was in play. Surely you don’t think the letters contained in the Bible canon are without exception akin to the original... word for word... right? It is a copy... of a copy... of many copies... of many copies... of many copies... and so on.
So I'd like more detail here. That's a bold claim to refute all scripture as being inspired, Paul as being false prophet (they are each either one or the other) and rejecting what you deem good versus bad. I have faith that the Word of God is protecting the word of God.
Please see the above. Unfortunately, it is all I can offer, just now... and still get to the rest of your post(s).
Regarding the use of "Lord". First, please respond to the concept of the "lowest common denominator". I cannot know if you have considered this in your study, nor if the concept has struck the heart strings, as I hear only your argumentation and didn't find that in the response…
You must forgive, but I truly don’t know what you’re talking about with this statement. Can you kindly restate it, please? Because as far as I know, I thoroughly addressed the matter of the term “Lord.”
You reason and give the example that there are "Lord this" and "Lord that". Precisely, AG, precisely. "Lord" is now such a common term. I have many thousands of "Lords" in my family tree referring to thousands of men. Meanwhile, when people translated the Word of God into the words of modern languages they translated both "Ba'al" and "adon_" and the proper name of God into one and the same "Lord".
Yes.
Thus, each time you say "Lord" you are lowering the esteem of both our Creator and his Salvation.
That is your opinion, dear one... which I respect and believe you are absolutely entitled to. I do not agree, however, as I have not heard so from my Lord... who I KNOW would tell me if I were doing so. So, again, we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I can handle that. Can you? I truly hope so.
It personally causes a strange flutter of upset that I now am suppressing each time I read "Jahveh" in your posts, or "Jah".
Please... PLEASE... do not take this the wrong way, but... WHY would you continue to READ something that causes such a reaction in you? I mean, I might... if I thought it was something that was very significant. But for me, if it isn’t significant, then it doesn’t upset me. Could be I lived a little longer than you... and so not much upsets me anymore, though. I think, though, that it’s more than I know my Lord... and have faith in him... that if there IS anything I should BE upset about, particularly with regard to him, he WILL tell me.
I asked him about this, though... your “flutter of upset”... and my understanding is that it is born of fear. Which I understand... as used to have such fear. The WTBTS taught me such. I have since left off that, though... fear... because my Lord has TOLD and TAUGHT me how NOT to fear: love, child. And perfect love... casts ALL fear... outside. Outside of New Jerusalem, outside of the Bride, outside of the Body... and outside of the individual members of that Body. Some sooner than others, yes... but all of them, eventually.
You refer to "Jehovah" as a false god, but cannot see past the forest for the trees for your own "Jahveh".
And is that not MY prerogative? If I am blinded by the forest, it is because it is the view given me by my Lord. How is that your concern?
It's simply a name that is not the divine name.
I must disagree... but okay.
He gave us criteria in scripture to discern the name, if we should seek it. So while "your Lord" the spirit voice gave you that name, I immediately now reject anything "your Lord" says as being from a false spirit.
Then no need for us to continue further, right, but stop here and respectfully agree to disagree? Because I have nothing to GIVE you... except what I myself RECEIVE. So, I can’t really see any reason to continue further, because what I will share with you on these things is what I receive(d) from my Lord.
Now, I am not saying we can’t discuss further – I AM saying that if you have decided that you must reject anything I share with you as coming from my Lord... and that as from a false spirit... then there really isn’t any purpose in our continuing. But (1) that isn’t going to stop, sorry, and (2) I do not want to frighten or cause you undue concern or “upset.” Truly. I am not trying to be facetious or sarcastic or anything like that. I have learned that the sheep are not mine to call, but my Lord’s. HE chooses: not they OR me. I’m just a small voice crying out “in the wilderness,” a (very) small rock... and so I don’t have ANY say... or affect... on anyone else’s faith... or hearing.
So, you let me know: if you wish to continue, I have no objection. If, however, continuing is on the condition that I accept what YOU are sharing... and reject my Lord (by refraining from sharing what I receive from him with you)... then I can’t see how we can go forward.
So there you go. You let me know. One thing, though, that I must address: I am not a lawyer. Never have been... and haven’t yet decided if I ever will be. I think that’s important for you to know because it is the truth and I wouldn’t want you to have any mistaken perceptions of me based on such an assumption.
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a doulos of Christ,
SA
