San Francisco or Bay Area Members?

by nibbled 109 Replies latest jw friends

  • nibbled

    @jgnat thanks for clarification. I'm a believer in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and his son Christ the Messiah. I am a student of cognitive science who studied communication and social sciences— My only interest nowadays is the scriptures, and all that brings light to our understanding of it for those who look for "proof" rather than spirit.

    I studied how Gnostism came to be (a subject not as a form of worship under consideration), and became wise to just how pervasive the spirit of the world is.

    I love people and sharing.

  • jgnat

    I embrace the world.


  • jgnat

    Cognitive science. Have you come across the work in neuroeconomics?

  • nibbled

    Yes. I get paid to design interactions. :)

    What's your interest in neuroeconomics? Super cool! Now I'm totally curious!

  • nibbled

    Hi MrsJone5 — I should have been more expressive. I have received many kind private messages from people, many expressing that they simply read and don't post due to the kinds of interactions that take place on the forum. To post is to open yourself up for ridicule. It's such a strange mix of people here. It's a very interesting social structure to observe, but I'm not an observer but a participant, and thus I lose objectivity.

    I am surprised by my niavely believing I was interacting with someone who I was enjoying that interaction though distinctly getting the feeling that she was arguing more than hearing. I desired to connect, and to interact. I see that as two people who leave subtly different from every interaction. Humans are simply energy who refer to actions and reactions as "life".

    This forum is fascinating, but I'm feeling beat up by the atheists, looked down upon by the "enlightened", and now betrayed by the one I came to know the best in the few days.

    I came in without realizing that there are such complicated politics and such dishonesty. I guess I did have a clue—there is a long list of rules beneath the posting box which to me seem to sum up "common decency" and manners. I guess now I know why.

    I hurt. I had a woman screaming in my face, literally, this weekend about Mary being a whore, getting f*cked and having a baby named Jesus.

    Ironically I was sitting at my restaurant bar tying a response to AGuest. She saw the content and (drunk) laid into me.

    It's hard to take the abuse from every angle. My parents believe I'm apostate because I believe the bible, my atheist judgmental friends think religion is a mental illness and don't make a distinction to recognize I DON'T BELIEVE IN RELIGION, the bible thumpers want me to believe what they believe, others think I'm a poser, and here I just thought I'd find some love.

    "Where is the love...?"

  • jgnat

    I am interested in the brain stuff too. I can't remember what article or book got me started. It might have been this one:

    Product Details

    The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force by Jeffrey M. Schwartz and Sharon Begley (Oct 14, 2003)

    I read freakonomics too.

  • jgnat

    I think, by and large, people are honest here. Bare their souls, really. Don't write off the board because of a few hounders.

  • nibbled

    I just pray one day to be able to simply be me. Show my face, post my full name, share my 'self'.

    For example, I have a whole virtual bookcase of all the books I've read or want to read, and would love to share that with you.

    I'll see if I can do it in another manner, perhaps just a photo of the books would do as well! :)

    Gotta run to another meeting. Looking forward to tonight. Glass of wine and lower blood pressure. It's been a stressful day IRL, and as much here too.

    I don't mean to offend anyone.

    I stayed too long in a marraige which was abusive. I try to remember to just leave when I feel that familiar feeling. I'm working on gathering friends who want a different kind of experience (not to take them away from this one, but to off another). For instance, finding the SF people to actually meet in person! :) Too bad you're not local! <3

  • jgnat

    I've done some deep thinking how reality shifts by reading books. I've found myself in a place where my reality doesn't match those around me. Something that seems completely obvious - to me - are a quantum shift for others. Because they have not accompanied me on my journey of discovery.

    I might start a book thread. I'll try and orient it towards the ex-JW community and new thinking. Would you be interested?

  • tec

    Thanks for the clarification. I gathered from (what I assumed was) the username's that that person has an interest in similar matter that I do. David of the Perez of the house of Judah line, and King Solomon who introduces the concept of just "who is" a Jew?

    No, they (he) were totally different in their (his) beliefs. Just addressed people with strong familiarity.

    I imagine there's someone here who can compare my IP addresses to that persons and clear my username identity as being just another one of that guy's. Tammy, I know you know what I'm talking about there, geek girl! :)

    I don't have access to anything here, though Jgnat does... so I think jgnat has already confirmed that one for you.

    I believe that there are false prophets and prophets.

    I do as well.

    I believe that Paul operated under holy spirit as an apostle appointed and chosen directly by our Christ resurrected. He was specifically chosen to bear the good news of the great sacred secret,

    As an apostle to the nations... after Stephen was stoned.

    and he was the one who penned the words to Timothy that all scripture is inspired.

    He did... but not everything in the bible is scripture, and not everything in the bible was even in existence at the time he wrote that to Timothy. We cannot make his words mean more than what they actually did. Also, all scripture is inspired does not translate to all scripture cannot be tampered with. Otherwise, why the warning at the end of the book of Revelation... if it could NOT be tampered with?

    I know that Constantine was the one to canonize the scripture, and despite his ignorance, I have faith that our Father preserved, even to this day, our access to this Word.

    Okay. I remember once being confronted with this... that the only reason I could have faith such as you describe here was based on the fact that I would CHOOSE to have faith in this, but without any basis for my choosing so. That is just me though. I have no problem with your own choice. If ever your faith in this wavers, because of something someone points out (and many have lost faith because they based it on an infallable bible, calling that the Word of God), then know that an infallable bible is not required to have faith in Christ and God. (You do not sound like someone who would lose faith in Christ and God over such, but I know that some people have)

    Where others have pointed out errors, I have gone to research. I find it fun. I find not errors, but misunderstanding, such as the times indicated around Christ's death, which some are written from the Jewish perspective of time, and some were written from the Roman empire's perspective of time, for example.

    Oh, I agree... errors and contradictions are often based on simple misunderstandings. Often there is no conflict at all.

    Paul's letter wasn't a mistake, how it was interpreted was the mistake. They took his letter as law and went to the letter of the law with it, as was part of the Jewish tradition or bad habits. He corrected them and said, no, that's not what I meant.

    I think he expected them to obey, stated in the second letter that he did it as a test for them (rather than as a means to bring the 'sinner' around). I think he realized his error and tried to correct it. I don't think he considered all that he wrote to be inspired. Else, he would not have had to say sometimes that something came from him, and that something else came from God. If it was all inspired, then it all came from God.

    The only verse of scripture which seems to be a scribal inclusion to me, is that one that talks about women in the congregation basically shutting up. It's not even consistent with Paul's expression in the same letter. But I do not let that give me liberty to start tearing away at verses otherwise. My faith would falter, if I didn't discern that it's all there, besides that one inconsistency, of all I've considered of every "mistake" or "error" noted by scholars and friends.

    So you see that it can happen. Your words... my faith would falter... is the only fear that I have when people put more authority into something, and then base their faith upon that authority. It is not the bible that has authority, but the Spirit. I don't have a problem with the bible... it acts as a witness (many witnesses) to Christ. HE is the one our faith should be in (the rock)... so that none can shake that faith, or wash it away.

    Who's to say Luke's letter wasn't inspired?

    Who is to say that it IS?

    How is his any different from the apostles letters to the dispersion, or Paul's letters to the congregations (body of Christ)?

    Well, his is a recounting of things that happened. Paul's letters to congregations are dealing with teachings and things in the (then) present.

    I have tested faith, and I have tested spirit. But I've never be instructed to test the scripture. When ever I've turned to scripture in light of "error" or "mistake" it seems so immediately that the error of the interpreters reasoning becomes clear—this from the girl who understand that to be a prophesy means also one who would explain scripture, not just prophets who would write scripture.

    Again, I have no problem with what you do. You are testing, and I am guessing that to help you determine how to interpret a scripture, you are testing against Christ and love? If so, then that is as I also do. But no matter what anyone else says that they do, you must do as you are guided to do.

    I simply put nothing before Christ. Christ, first and foremost... and all else second. Since Christ is the Truth, Word, and Image of God.

    I don't write scripture, but I love sharing the explanations I've learned by taking the statements of others and testing their statements against my source of Truth, the word of God as the Word of God.

    I'm not positive about the bolded part you have written here, but i do think it is obvious that you find joy in speaking of the explanations/interpretations you learn from from others, and 'fact-checking' them against what is written. (I think I got that right) No problem with that.

    Tammy, do me a favor, please?


    Will you let me know if I'm missing something in my response to you? Will you point out my flaw, error or oversight? What can you see of me that I might need to work on?

    I tried to respond to everything, so hopefully I did not miss something. It is not my place, though, to tell you what you might need to work on. I have plenty of things of my own that i need to work on... so speck and log and all that ;). Follow Christ... He is the one who teaches us. That is all I can do myself, as well.

    And is there a list somewhere that you guys have compiled of the errors or verses you refute as Truth?

    No. I don't actually go through and compare. I just look to Christ... if there is something I might need to see elsewhere, I look through Him (and ask) for understanding.

    I believe there are many denominations and religions because there is one commonality, man following men, rather than the Son of Man. He said I'm your head, they said we'll look for someone we can see.

    I can't disagree with you on that ;)

    Paul wrote the Corinthians (1 Cor. 3) that he was speaking to them as babies in Christ and as people of the flesh rather than as spiritual people. I feel like so many people do miss his point. The reason we have denominations is defined right there in scripture, and those were the most innocent of denominations. Paul describes those in denominations as being as fleshly, unbelievers and unspiritual people.

    I hear you on this as well!

    So, yes, I'm with you. You either live and learn in spirit, or you prefer the flesh.


    In my observation, those who recognize the spirit of Truth and that he will guide them learn very fast and with a solidness like no other foundation.

    Agreed. Because these are people of faith, who walk by faith... rather than by sight (fleshly), which bogs us down and in fact, helps to keep us blind.

    We as people as individuals are the sanctuary, so I do not seek a church or fleshly congregation to go gather, and am seeking those who recognize that there is a spiritual congregation, and desire to be a part of it.

    I hear you on this as well. I think if we seek Christ without concern for anything else... that we will also find others of his Body/Bride... simply because we will recognize them as His. (not without some mishaps on occassion... Peter and the others did not accept Paul right away)

    Peace to you,


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