The Stone the Builders Rejected

by sabastious 312 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    There would be no entitlement because that would imply a default position. This kingship would be determined by the evidence that the king knows best while no one else does.

    So he would have to answer every question and problem before he showed that right?

    The problems.

    So, since problems will exist for the whole of human existence, how would you know he can solve all of them?

    Any answer would require adequate explanation. If the answer was bad for the person asking then that person would be explained as to why it's the best course of action despite the negative effects.

    His answers could be telling people to harm themselves? Doesn't seem like much a guy to follow.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    So he would have to answer every question and problem before he showed that right?

    In the hypothetical, the evidence is apparent for all to see.

    So, since problems will exist for the whole of human existence, how would you know he can solve all of them?

    It would be the same set of recurring problems. There would be no new problems, only old ones. Theoretically we could learn all the solutions too, but we'd have to try out each one as they came by. Which would mean taking his advice consistantly. After taking the advice a few times and seeing that he was 100% correct you would then develop a trust. Like if a doctor kept giving the correct diagnosis and treatment plan over and over. At first you may have been skeptical, but eventually you turn into a believer.

    His answers could be telling people to harm themselves? Doesn't seem like much a guy to follow.

    If you could provide a solution with better results that would mean you had an answer he didn't which cannot happen. His solution would be the best and he'd be able to demonstrate that superiority making you the inquirer and him the solver.

    Clearly, your questions are just meant to stump. For a second there I thought you were engaging in honest discussion.

    -Sab

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Oh, so this person couldn't possibly exist?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Oh, so this person couldn't possibly exist?

    Hypothetical: Logic.

    a. (of a proposition) highly conjectural; not well supported by available evidence. b. (of a proposition or syllogism) conditional.

    Of course this person could exist, there is just not well supported evidence available. Which means the best way to speak about this person would be in symbol, metaphor and hypothetical.

    Getting back on topic I wanted to speak about another Biblical connection to the Image of the Beast of Revelation 13 and that's the story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. Now I do not believe that these people are literal, but written to represent an entire group of people during the Babylonian Exile who were faithful to the One True God. Daniel 3 has the King of Babylon proclaiming to the world to bow down and worship an image:

    4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: 5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”

    Babylon considered itself the empire of the world and therefore asks for nations and peoples of all languages to worship their idol under penalty of a fiery furnace. They were making an attempt to usurp the throne of God by getting total devotion and worship. People who create idols understand that they don't do anything, they just sit there. The feat of strength is to get the masses to bow down to it thinking they are worshipping a god when in fact they are worshipping a man and an empire. The Three Jews however refuse to worship it. Just like in Revelation 13 the image was purposefully erected as a loyalty test to expose truth loving Jews and kill them.

    16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”

    Most everyone knows where the story goes from here. God saves the Jews from the fire prepared specifically for them because of their faith. The Jews have had to deal with being forced to worship idols since their inception and the Watchtower Society is no different a foe. They too are interested in getting Spiritual Jews to worship an idol and use fear of spiritual death to assert their dominion over the earth. That's why they scower the planet searching for lovers of truth because they want to get them to bow down and do acts of worship to idols which will alienate them from their God.

    Babylon's ultimate fate will be shared by the Watchtower and all false prophets when their great city falls into oblivion. Revelation 18 fortells this:

    17 “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls! In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’

    The image set up by the king of Babylon was pure gold. That was the allure that was used to get the worship which is similar to the way the Harlot is clothed. She is extravagant and all the merchants of the world love her because they become rich off her luxuries. Yet, in "one hour" her wealth will be brough to ruin. She, along with the Watchtower Society, will share the fate of ancient Babylon.

    25 “This is the inscription that was written:

    mene, mene, tekel, parsin

    26 “Here is what these words mean:

    Mene: God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end.

    27 Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.

    28 Peres: Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.”

    29 Then at Belshazzar’s command, Daniel was clothed in purple, a gold chain was placed around his neck, and he was proclaimed the third highest ruler in the kingdom.

    30 That very night Belshazzar, king of the Babylonians, was slain, 31 and Darius the Mede took over the kingdom, at the age of sixty-two.

    With the age of the internet in full swing, everybody can see the writing on the wall.

    -Sab

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    My spirit bears witness with much of your last post, dear Sab (again, peace to you!), except as to Babylon the Great being the World Empire of False Religion (that is an erroneous teaching of the WTBTS to detract from what she TRULY is... and what they are. The WEFR is actually the seven heads/"mountains" of the wild beast that comes out of the sea, and the WTBTS is the beast that comes out of the earth).

    Even so, may I ask, who/what in your opinion are the "harlots" she is "mother" of?

    Thanks and again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    My spirit bears witness with much of your last post, dear Sab (again, peace to you!), except as to Babylon the Great being the World Empire of False Religion (that is an erroneous teaching of the WTBTS to detract from what she TRULY is... and what they are. The WEFR is actually the seven heads/"mountains" of the wild beast that comes out of the sea, and the WTBTS is the beast that comes out of the earth).

    Even so, may I ask, who/what in your opinion are the "harlots" she is "mother" of?

    I don't recall saying that Bablyon the Great was the world empire of false religion. Rather, this whole series tries to dispel that misinfomration propagated by the Watchtower Society. Babylon the Great is corrupt mother earth or Eve from Genesis. Both are symbols that encapsulate all that came from the fall of mankind. The whole timeline if you will, including but not limited to Greece, Rome, Great Britain and every world power that has ever existed. All of them stood in opposition to the One True God and always have. Not because they don't believe he exists, but because they believe he exists and fear Him and his holy people. However, they want the power and glory to themselves. How they accomplish this is through usurping the throne of God, by redirecting worship to idols which are always completely false. This is what the world empire of false prophets, the Beast out of the Earth, is designed to accomplish.

    For example, the Watchtower interprets the "two horns" as a fabricated world power (Anglo-American). This turns the "Revelation: It's Grand Climax at Hand" book into an idol. Because the truth is purposely hidden by teaching a false doctrine. Whether they admit it or not the Watchtower teaches that that book is Scripture. All idols are always designed to weed out lovers of truth there isn't any other purpose. Organized crime doesn't operate on nobility, but chaos. They havegreat incentive to expose the truth tellers so that they can be removed from the population. Leaving behind the perfect army of drones to rule the planet with.

    I believe Revelation 13:11 is a riddle, as is the whole Book of Revelations. The wordage is purposefully vague such as "two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon." IMO, this is describing a goat which would explain why the Watchtower has an image planted into the minds of their members of the Beast out of the Earth having scales and a tail. Because they don't want them solving the riddle, because that would be truth and not a lie. Meaning they are worshipping God instead of an idol. John 10 describes a pen of sheep where admittance is given only to those who go through the gate.

    10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.

    If anyone has ever been around goats, they ricochet off of things very well. Because of this they are regarded as master escape artists. In John 10 it says that anyone who climbs in a different way is considered a theif and a robber. Just like if you used a tree to ricochet over a fence into private property. You would be trespassing no matter how clever your attempt. That's exactly what the Watchtower is, tresspassers and they will be dealt with as such. Just as ancient Babylon threw the Three Jews into the furnace, so they will be thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur.

    -Sab

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Fiction.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Fiction.

    Band, can you please consult three private messages I sent to you while back (Jan 6th, 10th and the 13th of 2012). It should help you understand what is going on. You helped me down this path, why do you now reject it?

    -Sab

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Sab,

    I have been out for decades. My quest is not to supplant the WT with new, goofier interpretations of the Bible. A world is available, unrestricted by JW beliefs or culture. If it is impossible for the GB to accurately describe the long list of characters in Revelation, I submit it is impossible for you. Reading the Bible in this manner is no different from a WT study, IMO.

    You are welcome to share your beliefs. I do respect you. You state what you believe and do not insult others.

    One of the risks of posting is that someone will disagree with you. There is a wealth of material interpreting Revelation and other apocalyptic works. People just don't argue about which verse everthing in Revelation means. The majority view is as a very spooky book with few Jesus sayings. It makes perfect sense in the world John addressed. It makes no sense when addressing our current world.

    I like to see references. "I believe this...... b/c......" can be respected. Posting with no explanation does not convince anyone. Why anyone would leave the Witnesses and continue to engage in fiction is beyond me. Of course, your view is just as valid as that in the WT. After the Witnesses, most here are very wary of claims to be a medium of God.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Sab,

    I checked my pms. There are no pms from you in the past two months. I am sending you a test pm.

    I believe you sent them to me but they are not in my inbox.

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