by Terry 125 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Sorry you guys are all wrong, prior to Adam's sin all species were herbivores including fish and thereafter evolved into carnivorous species.
This is why all fossils of dinosaurs have teeth for grazing and grinding such as what cows and deer have today.
Gee don't you guys ever read the bible ?
And MY point is that it was deliberate INTENTION on the part of a supposed Creator God to design and build killing machines!
I don't think that you'd fine many theologians or bible scholars that would argue with you, unless they belong to/advocate the whole "no death before the fall" view in a literal AND concrete sense and most do NOT.
THe issue I guess is IF God created "killing machines" from the getgo ( they didn't evolve into them over millions of years) then God is a God that created killing machines for the sole purpose of killing other living beings right?
THe issue I guess is IF God created "killing machines" from the getgo ( they didn't evolve into them over millions of years) then God is a God that created killing machines for the sole purpose of killing other living beings right?
He's got it--by George, he's got it!
Exactly.
Precisely.
Pinpoint bullseye.
Amen.
ANd it's a fine point Terry it is, for all those denominations that adhere to God creating everything AS IS.
Not all denominations state that of course but we do have through the history of CHristianity ( for example) the viewes of soem that try to reconcile the world as we know it is and was to what God proclaimed to be "good".
The gnostics tries to do it by saying that the material worlds was created by a "lesser god" the "demigure" and that the material world was NOT good and that was one of the reasons the gnostics were deemd heritical by the early church fathers since it is clear by the writings of the OT that creation was good and it was clear by the writings of the NT writers that Christ was part of the creative process ( All all was made through Him).
So we are right back at the issues of God creating living,breathing, killing machines and why He did it.
The naturalist view is simple, the circle of life is part of nature and while we as humans may at times view it as "not good", that is OUR problem not nature's problem.
But what of the religious view?
All living creatures must kill to survive, whether they kill another animal or they kill a plant ( that is also alive of course), they must kill and have done so since the first living organism came to be.
All living creatures must kill to survive, whether they kill another animal or they kill a plant ( that is also alive of course), they must kill and have done so since the first living organism came to be.
To my mind, it is the presence of the nature of predators that destroys the "loving God" nonsense.
Any Creator who could invent herbivores has demonstrated the lack of necessity for carnivores.
DEATH for humans is a tragedy for humans. Give one rational argument why it isn't a tragedy for animals?
Animals can be loved by humans. Why are they not loved by the supposed originator of LOVE, God himself?
Humans imagine God wants to rescue them--but, their faith includes HUMAN SACRIFICE and drinking blood into the ritual of salvation!
Is there nothing shocking about this?
The scriptures give no answer except a shrug: "Whom shall we go away to, Lord, you have the sayings of life?"
The principle issue is not debated--it is only acknowledged. Very telling, indeed.
Blood rituals are beastly and so are the religions which incorporate DEATH into a sacrament.
To my mind, it is the presence of the nature of predators that destroys the "loving God" nonsense.
Any Creator who could invent herbivores has demonstrated the lack of necessity for carnivores.
That is an emotional responses though, isn't it?
Are you saying that the life of a cow is far more importanrt that the life of the grass it consumes?
Hey dude, no cow = no meat but no grass = less oygen to breath, just saying...
To say that carnivores, that serve a purpose in the circle of life, show that there is no "loving God" means what?
A loving God would not create carnivores because carnivores kill other animlas?
So how would a loving God keep the population of those herbavores in check? Built in self-destruct sequence? Random plagues?
Death for humans is NOT a tragedy, it is a part of life.
Unwanted death, unexpected death, "tragic" death ( whatever that may mean), those things are tragic because we as humans view them as such.
I don't think the lion views the death of a sickly antelope as tragic, he views it as a free lunch.
This is all very logical Terry, but do we have evidence that these dinosaur poop fossils aren't actually pineapple chunks in the shape of dinosaurs? I'm sure the awake will soon provide such proof (if you just show some patience) that pre-historic armour-plated pineapples were the main diet for any animal with big teech and claws.
mmxiv
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“God … created killing machines for the sole purpose of killing other living beings…”
That’s the biblical depiction in a nutshell. It’s the natural cycle of life we see all around us everyday. It’s earth’s ecological food chain, and it’s true of all biological life, whether zoological, botanical, algological, microbial or cytological.
Not only do living things kill other living things, in the natural world it’s also true that inorganic matter converts biological matter into inorganic matter and otherwise destroys it as living tissue or cells.
The big question is whether inorganic matter can go the other way without aid of an omnipotent being making it so.
Sometimes I wonder about the paradise called Eden trying to decide if it was paradisiacal for humans, microbes or inorganic matter. Since recorded history I’d say microbes have enjoyed relative paradise, and I’d say the inorganic matter really just does not give a damn. But humans? Well if nothing else they’ve been a persistent underdog pushing back and perhaps gaining ground. If the human brain is big enough it might just come out on top. Of course, this is all dependent on preference of the cloaked omnipotent being and what he decides to do with all his killing machines.
Right?
Marvin Shilmer
I have pondered this too Terry.
I'm pleased you made the effort to start this thread.
This planet of ours has witnessed the painful & bloody struggle for life eons before humans ever walked its surface.
Hoab
Absolutely and I think that for many a theologian it was difficult to tkae THEIR interpreation of "God of Love" and reconciel it with the world they lived in, hence the view that all of creation was "out of whack" and it was do to the fall- since humans were suppose to be the stewards of creation.
