"Right to bear arms" should mean ... (page 59)

Simon

This is where things are going:

Utah sixth grader placed .22-caliber handgun to classmate’s head after 'encouraged by his PARENTS to carry a gun after Sandy Hook’

Students said the boy told them his parents gave him the weapon to protect himself after last week's shooting
Police said the weapon was unloaded but ammunition found in his backpack

Police say an 11-year-old boy pulled a .22-caliber handgun on an elementary school classmate on Monday after his parents allegedly encouraged him to carry it for protection after last week's shooting in Connecticut.

Sixth grader Isabel Rios said that it was during morning recess at West Kearns Elementary outside of Salt Lake City that the boy placed the unloaded gun to her and her friend's head. Its ammunition was found in his backpack.

‘I told him I was going to tell, but he said, "If you tell, I'm going to kill you,"’ Isabel told KSL

In-school violence: Sixth grader Isabel Rios said it was during morning recess that a fellow classmate pulled a .22-caliber handgun on her and her friend, threatening to kill them both

Reacting to his threat, witnessing students did not immediately notify teachers of the weapon.

It took until around 3pm before two students alerted a teacher, with a district spokesman telling Fox13 that the boy was apprehended in seconds' time.

‘Once the teacher knew there was a weapon in the classroom, the student was apprehended within 30 to 45 seconds,’ said Ben Horsley, spokesman for the Granite School District. He said police were on the scene within five to 10 minutes.

According to some parents, however, that described quick response wasn't good enough, especially after many claimed first hearing about the event on the evening news.

Reaction: Upset parents gathered at West Kearns Elementary last night to discuss the incident, many angry that they didn't hear about the incident until watching it on the news

'I have 2 boys who go to west kearns and am horribly upset to have found out about this while watching fox 13 news this morning,' one mother responded to a letter posted on the school district's Facebook page late last night reporting the incident.

'This is not acceptable form of letting parents know the potential violence that could have happened. Perhaps a knee jerk reaction on my end, but I'm pulling my 2 kids from school until after the holidays,' she wrote mirroring similar parents' claims.

The boy was taken to juvenile hall while an investigation into the matter, as well as his parents' involvement, continues.

One unidentified parent told Fox: 'He told other students that the gun he brought his parents gave it to him for protection because of what happened in Connecticut.'

The school district says they plan to pursue criminal charges against the boy and he may not return to the school.

Friday’s shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newton left 20 children and six adults dead after a lone gunman opened fire on the school

undercover

...just because someone gets the OK to own and purchase a gun(s) doesn't mean that their gun(s) wont be used by someone who isn't mentally stable

...just because someone passes a screening test for mental stability, doesn't mean they will never become mentally unstable into the future.

True... you can't forsee every possible scenerio. But it is apparent that the current system is not working. And if it's not working, then you have to determine what needs to change to help alleviate as much of the problem as possible....even if you can't (and you won't) eliminate all gun violence, or mass shootings.

If there a limit to how many guns, and the type owned, then maybe Lanza would have killed his mother, and managed to kill more at the school, but maybe, just maybe, there would have been less carnage, had there been stricter laws/rules in place. It's not a fail safe. But it's a start. And if tighter control would or could have saved 2, 3, 10 or more lives, would it not have been worth it? Ask some parents in Newtown...

And to address the mental stability issue. You're deemed okay when you obtain your permit and purchase your gun. Maybe it should have to be a renewable permit, like a driver's license, that requires new testing every so often. Fail and your permit is revoked and you have to turn in your weapon (refunded at current book value, to be fair).

Finkelstein

Another relevant point toward the proliferation and distribution of hand guns and assault rifles being sold in the US is

the fact that these kind of guns are being brought into the countries adjacent to the US namely Canada and Mexico.

Just about all guns being confiscated by illicit gangs on both apposite sides of the US border have been guns directly

manufactured and sold in the US.

undercover

and another thought... that I didn't want to be mistook as being aimed at who I quoted earlier...

I see so many "It's too hard. We can't solve it completely so let's do nothing" or "2nd amendment! 2nd amendment!" arguments. They fall flat. To be honest, I used to be more in the '2nd amendment!' camp than in the "ban guns" camp. But it's obvious. What we have now is not working. No, don't ban guns. Control them. And control who gets them. And make a concentrated effort to get illegal guns off the street. And maybe it's time to amend the 2nd amendment. Maybe not an outright ban on all firearms, but a complete overhaul of what constitutes the "right to bear arms" and how it will be applied in the modern age.

Not a popular notion with a lot of gun owners, but that's tough. The gun industry needs to be the next cigarette industry. That which kills us becomes strictly regulated, prohibited in most areas, kept away from minors, heavily taxed and eventually becomes unpopular with sensible and civilized society who wish to not be a victim of its cancer. It will still be an industry, but more of a niche industry instead of a major industry of death.

jgnat

Rising gun seizures at border crossings October 30, 2012

Finkelstein

And to address the mental stability issue. You're deemed okay when you obtain your permit and purchase your gun. Maybe it should have to be a renewable permit, like a driver's license, that requires new testing every so often. Fail and your permit is revoked and you have to turn in your weapon (refunded at current book value, to be fair).

In theory this seems plausible but in reality, a person can go off their rocker any time and well between them having to renew

their gun license. Once again though who's to say that those guns purchased by that licensed owner, are not going to be placed into

the hands of people who are not mentally stable. ( Adam Lanza ) !!!!

In all logical sense any imposed regulation concerning the ownership and purchase of guns, particularly of hand guns is going to

be redundantly weak toward the expressed intent.

designs

Candice Lightner changed the Nation when her daughter was killed by a drunk driver and she started Mothers Against Drunk Drivers, MADD. We can be at the vangard of the changes needed in our country.

jgnat

Fink: Once again though who's to say that those guns purchased by that licensed owner, are not going to be placed into the hands of people who are not mentally stable. ( Adam Lanza )!

Well, my insurance company upped my rates as soon as there was another licenced driver in my home. It didn't matter if I said they would never drive the car. The point was that they could.

So a purchaser of a weapons permit should have to disclose all householders and if any are mentally unstable.

Simon

I'd be wary of putting something in place which could encourage the hiding of mental issues.

Better to just have the license and insurance based on the gun ownership.

jgnat

Point well taken, Simon.

Taking another issue, drunk driving, I heard that New Zealand has a zero tolerance policy and being caught drunk means an automatic prison sentence. The consequence of that is if a police officer say, catches a family man at the wheel drunk, they may let him go. Essentially weighing the balance of dangerous driving against supporting a family. The zero tolerance policy has the opposite effect.

Along the same lines, when I was reading up on gun controls in Australia, they did not see a significant drop in gun suicides from gun control. They began seeing significant strides when they put investment in to suicide prevention.

"Right to bear arms" should mean ...

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