WT Admits It's Free For Them ... But Not For You (page 6)

ÁrbolesdeArabia

Thank's Perry, I know I need to get myself in order with Jesus Christ. I have a wide group of friends with various backgrounds of many churches. The common theme is "men make screwed rules once they are "made"", "the Church and her rules we fought against, are now what are slowly eating us like the python"

. What's the best way to "pick the cleanest dirty shirt (organized religion)", because we are all imperfect humans that desire attention and glory? In 1989 a man left our congregation to seek out "truth" and came back with his own brand of it. He started a church where he made the rules and carried his own blow-trumphet, how do you deal with "attention seekers" and "glory hogs"?

Galatians 1

6. I am shocked that you are turning away so soon from God, who called you to himself through the loving mercy of Christ. [ c ] You are following a different way that pretends to be the Good News 7 but is not the Good News at all. You are being fooled by those who deliberately twist the truth concerning Christ.

8 Let God's curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you. 9 I say again what we have said before: If anyone preaches any other Good News than the one you welcomed, let that person be cursed.

10 Obviously, I'm not trying to win the approval of people, but of God. If pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ's servant."

DATA-DOG

Hello Perry,

I agree that the WTBTS is a works based faith. I am just not sure if the article you quoted from means what you say it does. Here is an entire section from the article.

Gathering the Things on Earth

10 Is it only anointed Christians who can experience a release by ransom, the forgiveness of their sins? No, God is reconciling to himself all other things by making peace through the blood shed on the torture stake, as Colossians 1:14, 20 indicates. This involves the things in the heavens (the 144,000) as well as the things upon the earth. The latter are those in line for earthly life, humans who will enjoy perfect life in Paradise on earth. Especially since 1935 has there been a concerted effort to gather such ones. Revelation 7:9-17 describes them as "a great crowd" who owe salvation to God and to the Lamb. They still need to survive "the great tribulation" and be 'guided to fountains of waters of life,' for Revelation 20:5 shows that such ones will become fully alive, having perfect human life, by the end of the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. Those who then pass a final test in their perfect human state will be declared righteous for everlasting life on earth.-Revelation 20:7, 8.

11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God's friends. (Compare James 2:23.) During the Millennium, they will gradually "be set free from enslavement to corruption [until finally they] have the glorious freedom of the children of God."-Romans 8:21.

12 As to their standing with God, it might seem that those of the great crowd differ little from pre-Christian worshipers. However, God dealt with the latter with the future ransom provision in view. (Romans 3:25, 26) They enjoyed forgiveness of their sins only in a provisional way. (Psalm 32:1, 2) Rather than fully relieving them of the "consciousness of sins," animal sacrifices caused "a reminding of sins."-Hebrews 10:1-3.

13 It is different with true Christians today. They worship on the basis of a ransom that has been paid! Through their High Priest, they "approach with freeness of speech to the throne of undeserved kindness." (Hebrews 4:14-16) Being reconciled to God is not some hoped-for development but a present reality! (2 Corinthians 5:20) When they err, they can receive real forgiveness. (Ephesians 1:7) They enjoy a truly cleansed conscience. (Hebrews 9:9; 10:22; 1 Peter 3:21) These blessings are a foretaste of the glorious freedom of the children of God that Jehovah's servants will enjoy in the future!

The way I see it the WTBTS is wrong because they say that Christ is not the mediator for all men. When that article says " work of God's Kingdom " isn't it referring to the work God's Kingdom will accomplish and not that you must work to gain salvation? I am not saying that they don't teach works over Grace, but I am not sure this paragraph is talking about having to personally work to gain life. If you were to show this to a JW, I believe they would mention what I have said. I am not sure that this particular point would get them thinking. The " mediator " false teaching should but we know how that goes.. I am interested in your thoughts on this.

Perry

What's the best way to "pick the cleanest dirty shirt (organized religion)", because we are all imperfect humans that desire attention and glory?

Arbo,

Getting yourself saved and born again doesn't require religion, it requires relationship. All the thief on the cross did was turn his head toward Jesus (ALONE) and ask. It was granted.

Having said that, you need fellowship. There are many bible believing Christian churches that are not "organized" into anything beyond their own local governance. Independent Baptist churches are a choice. Independent Bible Churches are another. Conservative Evangelical (Not New Evangelical) might be another choice. None of these are organized in the way we were all trained to think of organized. However they are controlled by Jesus because the individual members are born again and are inhabited by Jesus himself.

If you are really, really far from God, an entertainment type church that you can decompress in for a while until you are ready for the meat again might be a short term option. Just be wary, many are deeply compromised.

The desire of imperfect humans for attention and glory is dealt with by Jesus himself after getting saved. There are many Christians who respond to God's work of sanctification and lead without caring anything at all about so-called glory.

To get saved: Just tell God that you are not going to drive the ship anymore and turn the wheel over to him in faith. Make sure your faith is in Christ ALONE. I can't emphasize that enough. The last thing you want is to put your faith into something only later to find out that you were actually trusting in God PLUS someone or something else. You will get nothing in that case and you'll waste more of your time.

I will be praying for you as will my prayer group on Wednesday.

Perry

The way I see it the WTBTS is wrong because they say that Christ is not the mediator for all men. When that article says " work of God's Kingdom " isn't it referring to the work God's Kingdom will accomplish and not that you must work to gain salvation?

The quote is question is :

"they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom".

This is one of those statements that people can interpret with a fill-in-the-blank. In the minds of JW's, many might would see this as the work of the ministry in delivering Watchtower literature. Since, only those in good standing will survive Armageddon, and since to be in "good standing" you need to be regular in field service ..... see where this leads?

For all practical purposes when you connect the dots, every JW knows, at least taictly that he is working for his salvation by working to remain in good standing with WT sacraments ordinances.

This is an ABOMINATION to God and a slap in Jesus' face.

irondork

I hope I live to see the day when this WT teaching comes home to roost.

I've enjoyed following this thread. Much good stuff!

unstopableravens

if you want to hear a good( semon : go to youtube and listen to paul washer;shocking youth message sermon not semon .i cant go back on this phone!

DATA-DOG

" This is one of those statements that people can interpret with a fill-in-the-blank. In the minds of JW's, many might would see this as the work of the ministry in delivering Watchtower literature. Since, only those in good standing will survive Armageddon, and since to be in "good standing" you need to be regular in field service ..... see where this leads? "

I follow you.. That is what I was thinking. The writer of this article could say that they meant something else if they were backed in a corner. There is really no need because when the R&F see " works " they immediately equate that with field service. If you don't go in WT approved field service then you are not in good standing. You could even lose your life.. Disgusting..

designs

Will we have Lamb chops and steak tenderloin in Paradise hmmm. From the Jewish Rabbi Sefer Chasidim: "Be kind and compassionate to all creatures the the Holy One, blessed be He, created in this world.'

Peter and James the Just were more representative of the early jewish-christian community whereas Paul was simply inventing a new religion that was later reflected in the Gospels anti-semetic prejudices. Paul's arguments counter a Judaism that didn't exit, clever.

trillaz

Wow.

Also, knowing what we know now, we can lok at the words and their meaning.

Thus, Jehovah can view these as righteous in the sense that he did Abraham.

So , the riteouse are to be called, and are accepted, yet because they believe in their own position, notice they mince words and don't try to offer a gurantee to those outside their clic.

designs

Seems the reality of these multiple ideas is that anyone from any of these camps is counting on some future reward- the self proclaimed Born Againers are not in heaven and the JW is not in Paradise....and both claim the other is wrong Sweeeet

WT Admits It's Free For Them ... But Not For You

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