WT Admits It's Free For Them ... But Not For You

by Perry 67 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • designs

    That's a squashed Amoeba buster!!

  • tornapart

    LOL.... I always thought amoebas were blue...

  • Pterist

    Designs *** Jerusalem would be the capital of God's Kingdom and all of humanity would live in peace under the Torah.***

    1. Would this include the sacrifice of animals as specified in the Torah. ?

    2. Is not this idea entertained in the "Jews for Jesus" circles, and in a Christian Pre-millenium dispensational Eschatology ?


  • designs

    There are differences of views on whether the Torah will remain forever as the code. Traditionalist Jews (Orthodox) may say yes using the term [immutability of the Torah] while Conservative and Reformed and modern Jewish thought is quite different and sees the pure human hand in the Literature and history of the Torah and the Prophets and Wisdom books..

  • Pterist

    Designs : The reality for the last 2000 years approx is that there is no temple, no continuation of animal sacrifices, no proof of the legitimate priesthood, no proof of royal line....the writer of The book of Hebrews predicted that there would be no tangible temple and that the Jewish anointed brethern should look to the Jerusalem above, spiritual mount Zion, where the congregation of the first born is enrolled in the heavens.

    The strongly Jewish book of revelation shows in cheaper 7 and 14 that the New Jerusalem is spiritual and in heaven, it achieved it's destiny in Christ and we as gentiles, "the great crowd", reap the blessings in Christ and in his New Heaven and New earth. Our Jerusalem !


  • Perry

    Those who prove loyal to Jehovah will have their names indelibly written in the “book of life,” as being perfect

    in integrity and worthy of the right to everlasting life on earth. Jehovah himself will then declare them

    righteous in the complete sense. (Romans 8:33) They will have been justified to life eternal. God will

    adopt them as his earthly sons, and they will enter into the promised “glorious freedom of the children of

    God.” (Romans 8:20, 21

    Thanks for the quote Blondie,

    A lot of people might simply think that these differences in theology are legitimate differences that Christians might disagree on. This particular issue is quite different. There are numerous NT references that address the few terms regarding the covenant that guarantees forgiveness of sins, ie, accepting the bread and wine, being born again like Jesus told Nicodemous, and being willing to say goodbye to even your own mother and father.

    But the scripture that comes to mind that destroys the Watchtower shackles above is :

    "Now to the man that works the pay is counted, not as an undeserved kindness, but as a debt. On the other hand, to the man that does not work but puts faith in him who declares the ungodly one righteous, his faith is counted as righteousness" - Romans 4: 4-5 (New World Translation)

    In other words, if a person works for God in trying to do good... with salvation in sight, or in ANY WAY uses salvation as a motivational factor, then his hard work for God goes into a debt account. He is digging his own grave.

    THIS IS NOT an issue that Christians can legitimately disagree on. The Watchtower might as well just go ahead and start selling indulgences .... because THAT IS JUST EXACTLY what they are really teaching when they say that your salvation is tied to the "work of God's kingdom". Read:

    The February 15, 1991 issue of the
    Watchtower, pgs. 15-20 paragraph 11; makes this

    Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great
    crowd have already “washed their robes and made
    them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation
    7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new
    covenant toward them,
    yet they benefit from this
    covenant through the work of God's Kingdom

    This is simply a gaseous emission from the pits of hell.

  • designs

    There's gaseous emissions coming from Hell!! Ruuuunnn

    PT- what you are reading in Hebrews and Revelation is the purposeful De-Judaizing of the original Jewish sect of christianity. The Traditionalist Jews (Orthodox) see the Temple being restored and the Priesthood (many claim to be direct descendants of the Levites (Cohen family).

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia

    Please tell me how St. Paul created two class distinctions with Romans? I stayed up late reading and studying Paul's writtings, still there is nothing found the back's up the WT's article you kindly posted. As Jehovah's Witnesses, how did we allow the "free gift of God" to be taken away willingly? What was wrong with my head for not catching this?

    Roman's Chapter 5 NIV UK-Version, Biblegateway.com

    5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we [a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we [b] boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we [c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

    6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

    9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, we also boast in Go but d through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."

    Romans Chapter 7: "

    Released from the law, bound to Christ

    7 Do you not know, brothers and sisters - for I am speaking to those who know the law - that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

    4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, [a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

    Romans 8:1-5 "

    8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you [a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, [b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. [c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit...."

    9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life [d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of [e] his Spirit who lives in you."

    In the following verses from Roman's chapter 9, St. Paul say:

    22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath - prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory - 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:

    'I will call them "my people" who are not my people;
    and I will call her "my loved one" who is not my loved one,' [i]

    26 and,

    'In the very place where it was said to them,
    "You are not my people,"
    there they will be called "children of the living God."' [j]

  • Perry
    As Jehovah's Witnesses, how did we allow the "free gift of God" to be taken away willingly? What was wrong with my head for not catching this?


    Don't beat yourself up. A slick talking snake has been talking people out of their lives for a very long time. Get yourself saved if you're not already and join the resistance, like so many who have gone before us.

  • Pterist

    Designs **** The Traditionalist Jews (Orthodox) see the Temple being restored and the Priesthood (many claim to be direct descendants of the Levites (Cohen family).****

    So I guess you will be investing in a lot of live stock.


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