Looks like there may possibly be a paper trail linking him to The B’nai B’rith (Jewish Masonic Lodge in the U.S. and Canada). Either close friends, and if he was a member though, then since it's a different masonic lodge that could be why nobody ever found anything.
Most solid evidence I've seen linking WT to Mason, somebody try to debunk this lol
by EndofMysteries 147 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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EntirelyPossible
This only works when studying nonintelligent forces. Science falls dead flat when attempting to study intelligent forces such as "Ghosts", "Angels" and "Devils" and therefore wrongly concludes that they are non intelligent, or a fabrication of human intelligence.
Well, this is just ridiculous. You are using a lack of evidence as evidence that the creatures are just too intelligent for us to study.
OK, let's assume for a moment they DO exist. If they are able to hide so well we can't study them, then they may as well NOT exist since they aren't interacting with us in any measurable way. And yes, I am aware that you will next bring up anecdotal ghost stories, angel stories, blah blah blah. Hence my use of the word "measurable". If these creature that you are so certain exists can't or won't interact in any way other that ways that can't be captured or have other readily explainable causes, they may as well NOT exist.
Oh, and you are utterly failing at science, logic, reason and rational thought, as per the norm.
Why do you think the story of David and Goliath was written down? To show that arguments such as this one are full of crap.
Fail. Goliath was a man, not an angel or a demon or a ghost.
Because it's not preposterous and non-winnable, that's just your overtly negative assessment of a situation you don't fully understand.
Just like you trying to talk about science or facts, it's a situation you don't understand. In the reverse, however, you have a situation even the "experts" can't agree on a basic premise, which God is real, basic ideas, facts, etc. It seems NONE of you understand what you are talking about.
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EntirelyPossible
Yes they are intelligent forces in a broad sense of the term, but we understand enough about them to be considered greater than them.
Whoa, sunshine, you can't even remotely begin to assert something that absurd. Using your own reasoning, perhaps they only APPEAR to be lesser than us so can never figure out how smart they are. In fact, in Sab's Fantasy Land Logic Funhouse, the fact that we THINK we are greater than them means they are so good at hiding their true nature that they MUST be greater than us and we can never hope to understand them.
What you call a "Bible Story" is actually a highly complex piece of ancient literature designed for purposes not entirely understood.
So to prove that we don't understand angels, demons, etc., you post a text that you don't understand. Have you ever heard the phrase "shooting yourself in the foot"?
That's a false analogy because we know that the movie was created by humans and imagined by humans for the sole purpose of enlightenment and entertainment. Such is not the case with ancient and sacred texts such as the Holy Bible.
Prove it.
The poster Recovery painted this fallacy of theirs very well in a debate with JWFacts recently.
This falls under the category of you thinking your shit is stuff and his stuff is shit. Two sides of the same fantasy land made up coin, each denying the other side of the coin is real.
The only thing I am under the influence of is freedom of mind. I would wager the metephor works much better for you than it does me. Prognosis: too much science, not enough spirituality.
You are definitely not burdened by too much mind. I would agree. And I think you meant "diagnosis".
Well that's a confusing pursuit since you just lied by omission.
As opposed your overt and outlandish lies, like trying to claim that the Torah talks about genetics?
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King Solomon
EP, .
FWIW, I think Sab actually meant something slightly different, when he said this:
You think, YOU, Sab, a mere goofy mortal, are going to be able to do battle with forces who are magnitudes smarter than you, and able to distort your reality? And just think: God LETS them operate!!!
Why do you think the story of David and Goliath was written down? To show that arguments such as this one are full of crap.
Recap: I asked Sab if he felt like he was a character within the plot of a fantasy story (LOTR, Star Wars, the Bible) and he responded with a story out of the Bible (David and Goliath) AND a dismissive denial; I'll that as a "yes".
His answer speaks volumes about the power of the Bible stories, where preachers DEMAND the listener personalize the story, with the faithful interjecting themselves into the plot and relating to it on an intimately personal level. Many "believers" can maintain a sense of self (i.e. maintaining personal boundaries), but some individuals have a difficult time separating reality from fiction and become lost in all of it, as it swamps their lives. Hard-core Xian cults are more potent, vs other religions (eg Unitarians) which don't demand allegiance to the death.
Many are chasing the same dragon to feed their addiction (to having special insight into the mysteries of the Universe), but are just looking for a different drug...
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sabastious
Well, this is just ridiculous. You are using a lack of evidence as evidence that the creatures are just too intelligent for us to study.
I'm not saying there is no evidence, there is just no measureable evidence. "They" allow perceivable evidence, but not measurable evidence because they wish to hide (in theory). That's why we have so many believers because they are LIKED and non believers because they are NOT LIKED enough to merrit "contact." Intelligent forces have preference.
OK, let's assume for a moment they DO exist. If they are able to hide so well we can't study them, then they may as well NOT exist since they aren't interacting with us in any measurable way. And yes, I am aware that you will next bring up anecdotal ghost stories, angel stories, blah blah blah. Hence my use of the word "measurable". If these creature that you are so certain exists can't or won't interact in any way other that ways that can't be captured or have other readily explainable causes, they may as well NOT exist.
They are interacting with us, just the people they choose because they are INTELLIGENT and GREATER than us. Why is it illogical to say that they are interested in interaction, but not full disclosure? Such could easily be the case giving the fact that greater life most certaintly exists in this universe.
Oh, and you are utterly failing at science, logic, reason and rational thought, as per the norm.
I don't care about science and logic in regards to phenomenon that is intelligent enough to evade them. It's a pretty simple concept that you are fighting against just for the sake of it.
Fail. Goliath was a man, not an angel or a demon or a ghost.
Just because you don't see a direct correlation doesn't mean I failed, it could just mean that you failed in comprehending my point, which is what happened. You should read it again.
This falls under the category of you thinking your shit is stuff and his stuff is shit. Two sides of the same fantasy land made up coin, each denying the other side of the coin is real.
If you don't see a difference between Recovery and I, then I don't know what to tell you other than to look harder.
As opposed your overt and outlandish lies, like trying to claim that the Torah talks about genetics?
A point of view is not always a lie. I provided my evidence and you rejected it. It's a lie of yours that I lied at all in this regard. I may have an erroneous view, but it's not a lie because their was no intent to decieve. Lie: afalse statement made withdeliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. I am still collecting evidence on my assertion as I gain education. Why do you have to be such a d*ck about it? Weird thing to be obsessed about.
So to prove that we don't understand angels, demons, etc., you post a text that you don't understand. Have you ever heard the phrase "shooting yourself in the foot"?
I said no one fully understands the texts, we are still discovering new truths about them as time passes on, but we do understand them, just not 100%. The proof that we don't understand ghosts, angels and devils is that we can't measure them, but yet they still persist into reality through mysterious and unexplainable ways. This denotes high intelligence and also at the very least curiosity in us as a species, if not much more.
Prove it.
The Holy Bible was not written for entertainment, it was written to explain God and it does a great job. You prove it by reading about it's rich history and about the people who wrote it as well as applying it's values in your life. It's a religious document and was created by sacred means. Comparing it to a fictional movie is just pure agenda.
Recap: I asked Sab if he felt like he was a character within the plot of a fantasy story (LOTR, Star Wars, the Bible) and he responded with a story out of the Bible (David and Goliath) AND a dismissive denial; I'll that as a "yes".
I am no one special until I change things enough in this world to deem me so. Like I said I have potential that you don't seem to be able to grasp. You are interpreting it as childish and unworthy. It's a good thing I built up my self esteem after being puked out by a cult or else I might be offended by your childish ad hominem. When you read my books you'll eat your words and it will be funny.
His answer speaks volumes about the power of the Bible stories, where preachers DEMAND the listener personalize the story, with the faithful interjecting themselves into the plot and relating to it on an intimately personal level. Many "believers" can maintain a sense of self (i.e. maintaining personal boundaries), but some individuals have a difficult time separating reality from fiction and become lost in all of it, as it swamps their lives. Hard-core Xian cults are more potent, vs other religions (eg Unitarians) which don't demand allegiance to the death.
Once again, you erroneously equate Bible Stories with mere fiction when in fact they are ancient peices of technology. Yes, you are supposed to put yourself in the position of David or Joseph or even Jesus that's how the technology works. They are specially designed stories based off real people that will affect your life in a positive manner and keep you on your path of destiny. They are timeless tales that help bring meaning to life that otherwise has none. You are not required to use them however, and you are also not required to try to remove them from your population with "reason."
-Sab
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EntirelyPossible
I'm not saying there is no evidence, there is just no measureable evidence.
That's functionally the same thing. Just like I said.
Why is it illogical to say that they are interested in interaction, but not full disclosure?
Because your basis for this claim is a lack of evidence. And before you say a lack of measurable evidence to try to make your point, that's the same thing. A lack of evidence IS your evidence.
It's a pretty simple concept that you are fighting against just for the sake of it.
I'm not fighting anything. I'm simply pointing out where certain claims fail to stand up to most basic scrutiny.
Just because you don't see a direct correlation doesn't mean I failed, it could just mean that you failed in comprehending my point, which is what happened. You should read it again.
I did. You don't have a correlation. You are trying to use a story about a man being big and tall and being defeated as proof that people could stand up to spookums. Just doesn't work.
If you don't see a difference between Recovery and I, then I don't know what to tell you other than to look harder.
I already told you the difference, look harder.
A point of view is not always a lie. I provided my evidence and you rejected it. It's a lie of yours that I lied at all in this regard.
Oh please. You claimed and tried to cite scriptuire to prove it, claimed it as true, not just your opinion. You get a "Pants on Fire" rating on that one.
The proof that we don't understand ghosts, angels and devils is that we can't measure them, but yet they still persist into reality through mysterious and unexplainable ways.
And there is the problem, crackerjack, you have no proof they persist anywhere except in the mind.
You prove it by reading about it's rich history and about the people who wrote it as well as applying it's values in your life. It's a religious document and was created by sacred means. Comparing it to a fictional movie is just pure agenda.
Well, it IS largely fiction. That's been proven time and time again. And we've discussed the values in the Bible. I'll let you have the violent, rape, women as property, genocidal, abortion happy foreskin loving Bible all to yourself. I'm sure you have an agenda regarding it. It is funny, though, how you say agenda like it's a bad thing when you have on yourself.
Once again, you erroneously equate Bible Stories with mere fiction when in fact they are ancient peices of technology. Yes, you are supposed to put yourself in the position of David or Joseph or even Jesus that's how the technology works.
Hmmm.... Interesting. It sounds like you are making outlandish claims again (lies, or just weird opinion?) about technology (all of which existed way before the Biblical authors showed up, BTW) and now trying to put yourself in a position of power by telling people how they are supposed to read the Bible.
It's adorable, really.
you are also not required to try to remove them from your population with "reason."
Required? Of course not. It's just a bonus.
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sabastious
My only agenda is freedom of speech and religion, which I believe is under attack by people like you. I appreciate your input, EP, but now we are just going in circles. Clearly, you are just going to present yourself as a devil's advocate to everything I say. You have a prejudice, that you seem to be unaware of, and it will only serve to sharpen me, as I have said before.
But one last thing to paint my point: lets say that you have a mental illness that you have conquered. In fact lets say you have the SAME mental illness as I, but you are interested in keeping that information from the public eye. Because, naturally, you will want people to look at you without some sort of bias tied to their understanding of the mental illness. So, what happens when someone inquires publically about it? You could then use your intelligence to misdirect the inquirer so that they look as if they are making something up out of thin air. This would protect your interests. These entities that I speak of have interests to protect just like anybody else and they only "appear" to certain people of criteria not entirely understood. They don't want to be publically exposed by science simply because that's not part of their plan. Just as you have a plan to conceal the truth about yourself.
-Sab
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Christ Alone
Yet another thread that King Solomon hijacked in order to insult someone else. Seems like a pattern here.
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sabastious
Yet another thread that King Solomon hijacked in order to insult someone else. Seems like a pattern here.
He thinks I am still programmed and is offering his "loving aid" in helping me out of my own muck by imposing his belief on me by use of "reason" and insults. The pattern spans accross many more posters than just himself. It's really what fuels the believer/unbeliever debates. The unbelievers are trying to "save" the believers which is pretty ironic when you think about it.
-Sab
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EntirelyPossible
My only agenda is freedom of speech and religion, which I believe is under attack by people like you.
Well that's just silly. You are free to say anything you like. I am free to respond to your ideas. That's how it works. You are free to promote the notion that that Torah talks about genetics. I am free to point out how ridiculous that is.
BTW, you were the one that wanted Recovery banned for being a JW apologist. Apparently your notion of freedom of speech extends only to people who's speech you like, which is why I defended Recovery's right to speak his ideas, just as I will defend your right to speak yours, even as I take a contrary position to the idea itself.
These entities that I speak of have interests to protect just like anybody else and they only "appear" to certain people of criteria not entirely understood. They don't want to be publically exposed by science simply because that's not part of their plan.
Ah, so you have moved from "they exists, science just isn't up to the task" to prognosticating and knowing what they are doing and why, knowing the mind of these invisible, undetectable creature, explaining their unknown plan.
Tell me, Sabby, how did you come by this knowledge?
Just as you have a plan to conceal the truth about yourself.
If the world knew about my secret, I would never get a moment's sleep.