by EndofMysteries 147 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Sab, they believe in supernatural forces, a "Supreme Being". That's an instant DQ, as NO rational person believes in ghosts, angels, devils, etc....
"Ghosts", "Angels", and "Devils" are all real, just misinterpreted sciences (or maybe better described as young interpretations). You need to wait on science for the concrete answers which means new technology. Until then your conclusions are merely personal conjecture from a scientist.
-Sab
Sab- what I am saying, I only read something small in an old mason book but it freaked me out. I can't research it now, I have to finish something else, but it's next on my list.
EOM, I found this article that makes some REALLY good common sense points. (Sorry this is a bit off topic, but you brought up the use of the name "Jehovah", so I thought it was ok... :-)
http://www.evidenceministries.org/2006/10/consistency-in-pronouncing-the-divine-name/
Posted by Keith on Oct 9, 2006 in Blog | 35 comments
I am working on a paper for my Theology class and wanted to write about something that I could use for our ministry. I decided to write about the history and significance of the Divine name and then tweak it when I am done in order to use it for our work with Jehovah’s Witnesses. I am also speaking about this subject this coming Sunday at Shavano Baptist church in San Antonio, TX and then again at the Witnesses Now for Jesus Convention in Pennsylvania. For more information, check out the calendar on our ministry web site.
During my research I came across this interesting quote from the Watchtower publication The DIVINE NAME That Will Endure Forever. On page 12 it states;
We can relate to Jesus when we use his name the way it is commonly
pronounced in our language. Similar comments could be made regarding all the
names we read in the Bible. We pronounce them in our own language and do not try
to imitate the original pronunciation… And the same is true with the name Jehovah.
Parts of this publication are included on the Watchtower’s website. You can read the above quote here.
Later, in the same brochure, the Watchtower states on page 25;
Additionally, substituting “Lord” for “Jehovah” removes something of pivotal
importance from the Bible: the personal name of God. The Illustrated Bible
Dictionary (Volume 1, page 572) states: “Strictly speaking, Yahweh is the only
‘name’ of God.
After reading the above quotes, I got to wondering what Jehovah’s Witnesses are called in Israel. If we are to follow the advice to use pronunciations that are common to our own language, and the only pronunciation of the name of God is Yahweh, then shouldn’t Jehovah’s Witnesses in Israel be called Yahweh’s Witnesses? I could only think of one way to find out. I called the Writing/Correspondence department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to find out.
I spoke with a man (who refused to give me his name) and asked him the question. As I figured, it was something he had never thought of and was curious about the answer as well. He had no idea how to figure out the answer so I asked him to check for Hebrew speaking congregations in the New York City area. He checked a number of his sources and kept coming to a dead end. There was nothing listed for Hebrew, Israeli, Jewish, Yiddish or any other name we could think of. I couldn’t help but point out to him the irony that there are no Hebrew speaking congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in an area that is filled with Jews.
He said he knew that the names of all Witnesses world wide were based on the English pronunciation of Jehovah, but could not find the pronunciation for the Hebrew language. There was nothing he could do to help me. His last suggestion was to call the branch office in Israel and see if I could find someone who spoke English. I did just that.
I spoke with someone who sounded like an Englishman and asked my question. He told me that when they go door to door, they introduce themselves as Yehovah’s Edei, or Jehovah’s Witnesses. I asked him if they have trouble using that pronunciation and he admitted that they did. He said that Yehovah (Jehovah in the English) is not a recognized usage of God’s name and that they have never heard it. He added that if people have heard the name, it is because they have heard of Jehovah’s Witnesses and not because it is used as God’s Name.
In order to be fair I asked if Jewish householders would recognize the Hebrew pronunciation of Yahweh and he said that they would not. The Jews have been told too many times that God’s name is too holy to pronounce so they would not recognize any pronunciation for God’s name.
It occurred to me after I got off the phone, don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses take pride in the idea that they are the “only ones” using God’s name and teaching people of all languages and cultures that God expects us to use His name? According to the DIVINE NAME brochure shouldn’t people use the pronunciation of God’s name in their own language? If this is all true, then why are Jehovah’s Witnesses using the English pronunciation of a Hebrew word in a Hebrew speaking country? Why aren’t they making God’s name known to the very people whom God chose for Himself and why aren’t they using the pronunciation that would be appropriate for Israel? It certainly does not seem consistent.
Okay, DISCLAIMER: This might set you on a path of a mind job. Things might seem a certain way or completely change your viewpoint of who is who, just don't be quick.
Anyway this is a book pdf from 1920, it supposedly is exposing and going in detail many cermonies and things in higher degrees of freemasonry. I was researching something unrelated and came upon this page.
I will do a lot more research into who masons think is Jehovah and why, and what they know of the origin of that name. But I can't for a month or 2.
http://archive.org/stream/causeofworldunre00newyiala#page/30/mode/2up
Sab, they believe in supernatural forces, a "Supreme Being". That's an instant DQ, as NO rational person believes in ghosts, angels, devils, etc....
It's interesting when an atheist says this. Because I immediately think, "No rational person believes that all things around us have no maker." If I said, "My computer has no maker", everyone would think I was irrational. Just saying...
One must also take into account that Russell derived his theological ideas from other people and other organizations ( Adventists, Freemasons)
Pyramidology was not his own self conceived ideology for example.
He took a little bit of this and a little bit of that and mixed them up to create his own perceived theology and then put
what he had into print and publication.
He took a little bit of this and a little bit of that and mixed them up to create his own perceived theology and then put
what he had into print and publication.
Funny. Immediately it reminded me of Russells quote about his sex life.
Then he said, "I am like a jelly-fish. I float around here and there. I touch this one and that one, and if she responds, I take her to me, and if not, I float on to others," and she wrote that out so that I could remember it for sure when I would speak to him about it. And he confessed that he said those things.
Sab said:
"Ghosts", "Angels", and "Devils" are all real, just misinterpreted sciences (or maybe better described as young interpretations).
Well, we've got you on record admitting that you believe in boogey-men. Do you believe in Santa, too?
You need to wait on science for the concrete answers which means new technology.
Listen to you: you KNOW that the "wait on Jah" line was a bunch of BS, a favorite one that JWs use to explain why God hasn't acted and won't be acting, yet you're willing to use the same approach for YOUR currently-favored invisible supernatural being(s)? WOW!
Until then your conclusions are merely personal conjecture from a scientist.
Nope, you don't get it:
When you approach the World from a rational viewpoint, you start with an empty slate, where EVERYTHING needs to be proven as having a valid reason for believing in it, VERSUS what you do: accepting EVERYTHING and then only rejecting if disproven (or maybe not even then?).
That's why some accept that Russell was a Mason based on extremely flimsy circumstantial evidence that is easily dismissed (as in the OP's allegation, where the Masonic Hall was built long AFTER the pyramid was). They WANT to believe, and won't let the facts get in their way, since they are seduced by their own conspiracy hypotheses.
The underling intensional premise of both Russell and Rutherford, was that they wanted to draw attention to
themselves and their published works and part of this agenda was to demean other religious organizations and place a beaming spot
light onto themselves.
Kind of like car salesmen promoting their products over the competition.
This is still going on with the todays JWS.
It's interesting when an atheist says this. Because I immediately think, "No rational person believes that all things around us have no maker." If I said, "My computer has no maker", everyone would think I was irrational. Just saying...
CA, you DO understand the difference between animate and inanimate objects? Between living and non-living matter?
In chemistry, the rules that apply to inorganic matter (i.e. non-carbon) differs so substantially that you need to take additional coursework in organic chemistry and biochemistry in order to understand the differences. Point being, living matter operates by quite different rules.
Have you taken ANY chemistry, or are you willing to dismiss a subject based on your uneducated opinion since it seems non-sensical to you?
(And I fully understand: ALL foreign languages seem like mere babbling to me, where those who speak it cannot be conveying any information by their babbling.)
