By What Authority?

by Orthodox1 183 Replies latest jw friends

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades
    Maybe paganism was superior to the Bible. When Christopher Columbus arrived in America the Indians were practicing brutal human sacrifices. Maybe they should have been left alone.

    painting with a rather large brush aren't you? not all pagans did human sacrifices. really now...that's just gobstoppingly silly of you to even ATTEMPT to throw out there.

    on top of that, half of your holy text has all kinds of animal sacrifices. sanctity of life...hmmmm

    it's interesting you mention columbus...1492 was right in the middle of the inquisition as i understand it and considering that colmbus and company brought diseases that literally wiped out whole poplations of people...yes, i'd say they certainly would have been better off without any meddling.

    and i'm also unsre how you figure they wouldn't have stopped that practice on their own. after all, eventually the catholic chrch reversed course on a few things. it took a while, bt eventally they stopped torturing non-believers. it took a REALLY long while, bt eventally they admitted the earth wasn't the center of the solar system, much less the universe. perhaps, just perhaps those heathens would have stopped mercilessly slaghtering one another for their pagan gods...

    Pagan morals are also much more fun than the Christian ones, just don’t expect the same level of spiritual development or even trustworthiness from a temple prostitute, than from a Christian. If you extrapolate this to the type of society they produce, you can see clearly which one is superior to the other.

    are you saying that there weren't catholic prostitutes? it's the oldest profession in the book lmao. i think you should read some of st. agustine's writings...catholic fellow, seemed to think prostitutes weren't so bad.

    just remember, can't turn a ho into a housewife...

    We are not in the middle ages anymore, even though some people seem to be stuck there. The Church doesn’t burn anyone these days. Protestants also did it at the time. Some totalitarian atheistic regimes still do it in the XXI century.

    1) so since the protestants did it, that absolves you? we're not even talking about them, but it's funny you mention them. you do remember how protestantism came about right? luther and the 99 problems but a b***h aint one? sorry...that was jay z. he had some sort of thesis and was excommunicated for all the wrongs like selling free passes to sin and still get to heaven. kinda reminds me of how the jws work...

    2) speaking of jws...we're not in the 1800s anymore, so that whole, "it's ending in 1914" business shouldn't apply.

    3) i forgot to mention how we're not in the period between 1914-1919 anymore so that shouldn't count either.

    4) and while i'm at it...we're not even in the 20th century anymore, how dare anyone mention 1925 and 1975? oh and now that certain blood fractions are ok, surely it's not cool to talk about how people died from not having transfusions. or organ transplants, or were pushed into not getting a higher education.

    5) going back to point 1...since the jws are having a sexual abuse scandal, i guess that gives catholics a free pass?

    6) now that i think of it, i'm pretty sure there's a lot of pagans TODAY who don't practice human sacrifices anymore. why are you still living in the past?

    i don't have issues with catholics at all, frankly i see them in a much better light than jws for sure, but for anyone to claim they have the ONE religion and that everyone has to follow THEIR guidelines is beyond nuts, especially when you've come out of the jws. this is the sort of thinking that strips homosexuals of their RIGHT to enter into a consensual relationship and marriage with all the benefits that are their RIGHT. this is the sort of oppressive thinking forces square pegs into round holes which ultimately damage the peg.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Heh, too much nonsense to respond to, but I do find it interesting that just one page ago we had Catholics clamoring to claim kinship with early Xian martyrs, who willingly sacrificed their lives in the name of Jesus (and are thought of as being rewarded in Heaven for doing so).

    One page later, we're told pagans sacrificed other humans to their Gods, and that it was evil (even though many of the victims considered it an honor to serve as the sacrificial victim, as they thought they'd be serving as ambassadors to the Gods for their people; sounds familiar to the anointed ones?). Hmmm....

    So it's Ok if Xians do it, but not Ok if those pagans do the same? You're different, right, cuz you're not wrong?

    Ironic, as per Xians, Jesus WAS the ultimate human sacrifice offered to God, sent by Him on a suicide mission; yet human sacrifice is considered WRONG, and displeasing to YHWH? M-Kay....

    And maybe those Catholics priests who blessed the Spanish conquistadors were doing those pagan Aztec natives a favor, slaughtering them, so they could be martyrs for their pagan Gods? Or, is it just that the life of a pagan or heathen is not considered as important as that of a Xian?

    The obvious hypocrisy is mind-numbing.....

  • apostatethunder
    apostatethunder

    Rbih, I didn’t burn anyone myself, so don’t need any absolution, thanks.

    About the rest of your post, you seem a bit confused and I don’t have the time to disprove each and every one of your wrong conclusions.

    Catholics don’t claim everyone has to follow their rules.

    Pagans did throw Christians to the lions so they were not so tolerant with them for some reason.

    Some other religions, and political groups are also very intolerant with people that don‘t think like they do.

  • apostatethunder
    apostatethunder

    King Solomon, hypocrisy indeed.

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades

    this whole convo is just freakin' weird

    1. what athority for the jws to say they're the only one considering all the others?

    - bs answer from the bible (and by that i mean a bs interpretation...not that the bible is bs, my feelings aside)

    2. scriptre talking about giving and helping others...

    ________somehow that = catholics are the one and only?

    i could have sworn that other chrches help others. i'm pretty sure mormons have a thing where some of that tithe money goes to helping other mormons who have lost their jobs. i'm pretty sure lutherans and baptists have hospitals. are catholics the ONLY group that have homeless shelters? are they the only ones with soup kitchens? are they the only ones who baptize or revere mary? really that WHOLE argument was laughable to say the least, bt whatever.

    the the whole peter thing...ummm prove it?

    then to go on the "we've been persecuted for blah blah blah centries" actually...i think the jews have a much longer history of persecution...lol and considering that scripture of jesus saying his followers would be hated, i find it hilarious that the religious group that's been hated on the MOST (see inquisitions, constantly being pummeled by groups taking their land, the holocaust (wasn't the current pope part of the HITLER YOUTH?), AND OF COURSE ALLLL THE TENSION IN THE MIDDLE EAST) the most hated religion on earth is also the religion that DOESN'T think jesus was anything special lmfao.

    i find any writings about jesus, even the "eyewitness accounts" very sspicious. so these people REALLY witnessed some dude walking on water and bringing a few people back from the dead? honestly, why are we to believe them? frankly, they could have been much like governing body of jehovah's witnesses. lying and fleecing the flock in order to make while investing in miracle wheat and buying houses like beth sarim. sorry...meant the vatican and all the other buildings they own. i remember listening to a covington interview where he talked about rtherford and explained away beth sarim...he was obviously lying through his teeth or misremembering things in his old age. actually, it's really fnny...maybe they ARE the modern day gb.

    churches all over the world built off citizens money yet owned by the church...sounds like kingdom halls, assembly halls and bethels built by donation money and owned by the gb)

    excommnication (disfellowshipping)

    sole source of salvation

    inquisition (moyle...think that was his name, franz, the stories i'm hearing about bethel)

    corrupt leaders (popes and gb)

    sexual offense scandals

    i think you get the point

  • apostatethunder
    apostatethunder

    Rbih, I think you are the only one not getting the point here.

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades
    Rbih, I didn’t burn anyone myself, so don’t need any absolution, thanks.

    don't recall saying you did and frankly, what you said was entirely irrelevant. you lot seem to think that you catholics have some sort of god given blessing to convert pagans. ok cool...many other religions feel the same way, but whatever. the issue i have with this assertion that CATHOLICS ARE THE ONE AND ONLY has to do with how far off from christ the church has been. really now...everywhere they've tried to convert has ended up in complete and total disaster for the poor natives. there's NO WAWY CHRIST IF HE WAS EVEN REAL WOULD APPROVE OF THAT.

    if he were real and if he did what the bible claims, then he did NOT use the sword to convert. he didn't even uuse the sword at hand to prevent his own death. yet somehow christ is smiling with approval as native peoples were enslaved and wiped out? maybe you oughta pick up a history book steeped in reality and not the jewish fairytales in the bible. i'm trying to grow out my afro. i'll let you know if i get some divine super powers.

    About the rest of your post, you seem a bit confused and I don’t have the time to disprove each and every one of your wrong conclusions.

    history book. read one

    science book as well apparently. i mean really. the garden of eden? the great flood? the parting of the red sea? turning water into wine? you realize wine has carbon in it as it's an alcohol. water...does not. that's just one of the many erroneous concepts in the bible and please please please prove to me that prostitution wasn't allowed by the catholic church. i'm DYING for that one.

    i'm seriously flabbergasted how you could talk about the societies of pagan religions. buddhists are pagans according to the definition. you want to explain to me how they're society is any worse than catholic society?

    Catholics don’t claim everyone has to follow their rules.

    "The thing is Jesus didn’t found any Church, but he did say to Peter that he would build his congregation on him. It seems the Catholic Church (which also means Universal), is the only one that can honestly claim that was built on that rock mass, that is Peter."

    i remember seeing this from somewhere...

    Pagans did throw Christians to the lions so they were not so tolerant with them for some reason.

    and christians have slaughtered their way around the globe. you really ought to read some history about south america. i find the notion of catholic's complaining about pagans being intolerant mind blowingly hypocritical.

    Some other religions, and political groups are also very intolerant with people that don‘t think like they do.

    do tell...i recall seeing this on this very thread:

    "The thing is Jesus didn’t found any Church, but he did say to Peter that he would build his congregation on him. It seems the Catholic Church (which also means Universal), is the only one that can honestly claim that was built on that rock mass, that is Peter."

  • apostatethunder
  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades
    Rbih, I think you are the only one not getting the point here.

    "So imagine the year is 1750 and a non-Christian who converts to Christ wishes to be faithful to Christ's instructions here. To which church should he go? Think about it....

    Christ's Instructions:

    Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, be merciful, love your neighbor and your enemy, confess your sins to one-another, eat my flesh and drink my blood, baptize all nations in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, "this is your mother" referring to Mary who says "all generations shall call me blessed", participate in the communion of saints, institution of the office of Peter as the head of the Church on earth....

    YEP, SOUNDS LIKE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO ME! "

    - orthodox1

    ____________________________________

    "The thing is Jesus didn’t found any Church, but he did say to Peter that he would build his congregation on him. It seems the Catholic Church (which also means Universal), is the only one that can honestly claim that was built on that rock mass, that is Peter."

    -YOU

    _____________________________________

    "You are still attacking me and not caring for the topic. What gives anyone the authority to believe in what they want to believe over anyone elses beliefs?

    I, of course, have a Catholic perspective (no hidden agenda here). I believe history, traditions, scripture, and reason all point to the Catholic faith.

    Please tell me where I am wrong instead of accusing me of false humility and egocentricism, and whatnot. I'm not interested in your instults. I never once said I am being persecuted. I only made the observation that much hate is displayed through bigotry and typical religion-bashing. I can take it all day, and I will, hence I am still here ;) ...."

    -orthodox1

    ______________________________________

    "King Solomon, the earlier martyrs were Christians, that means they followed Christ, same for anybody that follows his teachings nowadays.

    People that claim to be Christians but don’t follow him, specially those in a position of teaching or shepherding others, are the wolves in sheep clothes he warned about.

    His teachings are very simple, love God above all else and your neighbour as yourself."

    -YOU

    __________________________________________

    "Maybe paganism was superior to the Bible. When Christopher Columbus arrived in America the Indians were practicing brutal human sacrifices. Maybe they should have been left alone.

    Pagan morals are also much more fun than the Christian ones, just don’t expect the same level of spiritual development or even trustworthiness from a temple prostitute, than from a Christian. If you extrapolate this to the type of society they produce, you can see clearly which one is superior to the other."

    -YOU and please tell me you see the HYPOCRISY in this and the last quote...from YOU

    i can read just fine and i'm pretty sre i'm not the one confused here...

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Apostatethunder said:

    Rbih, I think you are the only one not getting the point here.

    Irony, indeed.... Cuz from where I'm sitting, you're the one who's failing to see the light....

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