By What Authority?

by Orthodox1 183 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  King Solomon

  "You've seen the vitriole on here toward me and others of faith, so please don't accuse me of having a complex; the hatred is real...And, I'm no better than anyone else, so if it seems I have some large ego, I apologize. Though you accuse me of having a big ego and a persecution complex, thank you for not hating me"

  So which is it? Do you actually believe you are being persecuted, or is it only a persecution complex? You sound like you're leaning towards the former, which if you think about it, is exactly what someone with a complex would say... You DO realize JWs also share that tendency, right, if not moreso? As they're quick to point out, they actually HAVE been victims of organized campaigns to outlaw their religion. Catholics? Not so much.....
• 

  apostatethunder

  The thing is Jesus didn’t found any Church, but he did say to Peter that he would build his congregation on him. It seems the Catholic Church (which also means Universal), is the only one that can honestly claim that was built on that rock mass, that is Peter.
• 

  Isidore

  "You DO realize JWs also share that tendency, right, if not moreso? As they're quick to point out, they actually HAVE been victims of organized campaigns to outlaw their religion. Catholics? Not so much....."

  Asinine comment. Were JW's hunted down ans summarliy executed in the first 3 centuries leading up till Constantine? When I visited Rome and took a tour of the Coliseum, the tour guide, a non-Christian student from New Zealand, stated that approx. 10 million Catholics were put to death in that arena over a 400 hundred year period. JW's? Not so much....
• 

  Finkelstein

  since 41,000 denominations use the Bible to back up their individual beliefs - can JWs make this claim? Thanks!

  They claim as the others have done but its a proclamation for themselves, there's actually much bible Scripture to support against

  this assertion.

  Organized religion is an agreed to set of lies, it really comes down to whether or not your a supporting participant of that established agreement.
• 

  Orthodox1

  Isidore, you keep beating me to the punch...

  The next thing we will hear on here will be "Those millions who were killed by the Roman's weren't Catholic," so let me answer that before it's asked. The term "catholic" was used in writings since 100 A.D. by Ignatius of Antioch, who was born around the time of Jesus' death, and was a disciple of the first Apostles.... When he wrote his epistles, he would use the term "catholic" nonchalantly (without definition) because many had already taken on the title traditionally and knew it well.

  Later, millions of self-titled "Catholics" would be fed to lions and made sport of in the Roman Coliseum. Thousands of writings still exist today (and you can download hundreds of them for free by doing internet searches), by many of these martyrs and saints. Roman history itself talks about the Catholics underground committing the crime of Communion (bread and wine, body and blood), a "catholic" Christian tradition.

  Finkelstein

  I am Catholic because I have given up all the lies of this world and what others would have me believe. And for my Blessed Lord's sake, keep calling me a liar.
• 

  Isidore

  "Organized religion is an agreed to set of lies, it really comes down to whether or not your a supporting participant of that established agreement."

  By this statement, by default, you must believe in disorganized religion. Are you a hedge-my-bet agnostic?
• 

  Finkelstein

  Are you a hedge-my-bet agnostic?

  No actually a hedge-my-bet atheist based upon rational logic and reasoning.
• 

  King Solomon

  Asinine comment. Were JW's hunted down ans summarliy executed in the first 3 centuries leading up till Constantine? When I visited Rome and took a tour of the Coliseum, the tour guide, a non-Christian student from New Zealand, stated that approx. 10 million Catholics were put to death in that arena over a 400 hundred year period. JW's? Not so much....

  And there's the entire rub: JWs claim those SAME Xian martyrs.

  So we have a veritable gold rush to back-track and claim brotherhood with those early Xians who died at.... wait for it.... the hands of the Roman Empire?

  Hmmm, I wonder what those early Xians would say, knowing that they died at the hands of Romans, and what became the Roman Catholic Church would end up claiming them as their adherents, their martyrs? So in essence, Romans put them to dead so they could die for.... wait for it again... the official state religion of Rome?

  Do you think those martyrs might recall Jesus' words: "my kingdom is NO PART OF THIS WORLD", and might object to the hijacking of Christ's teachings to allow it to become a State Religion of the Holy ROMAN Empire?

  And I thought the Mormons were bad, baptizing the dead of other faiths (Jews included) in order to save their souls....
• 

  King Solomon

  Orthodox1 said:

  You've seen the vitriole on here toward me and others of faith, so please don't accuse me of having a complex; the hatred is real...And, I'm no better than anyone else, so if it seems I have some large ego, I apologize. Though you accuse me of having a big ego and a persecution complex, thank you for not hating me...

  So, let me get this straight:

  Do you actually think you're undergoing real persecution by posting here, or do you have a persecution complex? Irony is, if you asked those suffering the latter, the answer is the same as that of the former.

  Because again: you need to get over yourself (and not with the faux humility deal, "I'm not worthy!" stuff). You are no more persecuted for posting your opinion than anyone else is persecuted, i.e. not at all.... It's just that some of us don't feel the incessant need to hyperbolize the torment, and don't view it as horrible suffering undergone in the name of the Lord that is going to earn us brownie points with the big guy upstairs.

  If it IS that stressful, then the answer is simple: don't post. I dare say those early Xians didn't walk into the Coliseum and say, "are you guys looking for Xians to persecute? Well, is THIS your lucky day!"
• 

  Orthodox1

  King Solomon,

  You see things very differently than history does... I see the Catholic Church, over hundreds of years, slowly assuming all of the Roman Pagan world into herself, destroying the Pagan world as it was known, that stood for a thousand years as oppressors. The evil Romans weren't then Evil Roman Catholics, but were converted through the love and prayers of the martyrs and laity of the Church.

  Pick up a copy of City of God, by St. Augustine so you can read from a primary source (seeing as he was writing as events were unfolding) how the Catholics were put to death by the Roman Pagans, how the Barbarians slaughtered the Romans but spared the Christians out of respect for the divine man, Jesus. The Catholic Church did not become Roman, but Roman became Catholic. To say otherwise is just a total disregard for truth.

  Should a murderer convert to the Church tomorrow, I pray you have the intellectual honestly to understand that the Church isn't of murderers, but of men who were once murderers who have found truth and salvation through the Church Jesus established, for he said, "Upon this Rock, I will build my Church, not churches, bibles, or foundations, but one single Church for all his disciples. And why wouldn't He? God is not a God of confusion or shortsightedness. He does all things with purpos, like establishing His Church on earth. It would be a very cruel thing for a loving God to create tens of thousands of competing churches when he prayed that they all be one body with one head.