WT and the Illuminati - truth or fiction?

by SnowQueen 268 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Snow Queen: Bear in mind that sometimes there is no evidence, as the evidence may have been destroyed or hidden so well that no-one has discovered it. Key witnesses may have been silenced, bought off or killed. Where this is the case, it comes down to using your intellect and your critical thinking skills to draw logical conclusions based on what evidence does exist and what can reasonably be deduced.

    My response: In the absence of direct evidence, Occam's razor rules. This rules out that there was a conspiracy to destroy the trail. Sometimes the trail is simply gone and we will never know. We understand this in the wilderness. Today we might see fresh cougar tracks. A good rain, and the evidence is gone and we will never know.

    The best strategy is to be vigilant about protecting civil and privacy rights. That keeps anyone from abusing power.

    Nambo: Reading books, we have no other option as we where (sic) not there, but these books do quote from material heald in archievs of the time. What do you mean by "critical thinking skills"?, I would have thought the very term would have backed up our side of the discussion, the ability to not just belive whet some with an agenda tell us, but to seek out alternative views and see if they fit in with the pattern of the world. Perhaps you could give some examples of what you mean?

    Use some healthy skepticism to weigh the evidence, the integrity of the author. Apply Occam's razor. Are you offered the simplest explanation? How long ago did the event happen? No matter how good the research, the farther they are from the event, the less trustworthy the evidence. This is why there is a "statute of limitations" on bringing matters to trial. Even direct witnesses become less reliable...not due to conspiracy interference but simply because their memory is faulty.

    When I read a book with some weighty thoughts, I argue with the author in my head as I read. "Yes but what about this?" I confirm that the author has covered all angles. I argued with Henry David Thoreau throughout, but he demolished my arguments every one. I have deep admiration for his conclusions, therefore.

    There is manipulative language that I look for that immediatly puts me on red alert. An example is if the author claims that their story is true but they must hide the truth behind fiction. A prime example of this is the Da Vinci Code. Fiction. But because the author inserted this little phrase, "truth" in the introduction, there are people who will then be sucked in to the intriguing tale, masterfully woven and internally consistent. But it's not. True.

    Another strategy is to warn the reader to expect resistance from family and friends to your new-found knowledge and transformation. The WTS uses this to good effect. The materials predict resistance from family and friends, and sure enough, they do! The book was right! It must be right about other things too. The reader forgets that the simplest explanation is that the new-found "knowlege" and "transformation" is alarming, and that family and friends really do have the reader's best interests at heart. I have put down books never to pick up again as soon as I come across this warning.

    The third is to hint at a well-hidden conspiracy by a mysterious, shadow group. How does a reasonable person dismiss the existence of a secret group? One can't disprove a negative. It's like boxing air. There is a certain attraction to believing that there is some order to man's affairs; that the ups and downs of the economy are masterfully controlled. The alternative, that we have no more control than we do over the weather, is rather....lonely. I've noticed also that detractors to the whole conspiracy thing are dismissed as naive. Rather too neat, don't you think?

    So I admit, the very whiff of conspiracy has my hackles up. It eludes critical review.

  • besty
    besty

    conspiracy 'theories' seem to only have a rear view mirror

    if their proponents would use the word theory in the scientific sense, they could be de-bunked with ease due to the lack of predictive accuracy

    conspiracy hypotheses might be a better description - they don't deserve the status of theory.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    conspiracy 'theories' seem to only have a rear view mirror

    "Objects in mirror may appear more real than they are."

  • SnowQueen
    SnowQueen

    I believe the phrase you're referencing is

    Objects in mirror are closer than they appear

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objects_in_mirror_are_closer_than_they_appear)

    My point exactly

  • SnowQueen
    SnowQueen

    I believe the phrase you're referencing is

    Objects in mirror are closer than they appear

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objects_in_mirror_are_closer_than_they_appear)

    My point exactly

  • Nambo
    Nambo

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?s=bilderberg

    Heres a link, the site isnt some conspiracy site, it documents all the Hansard reports of every single word spoken in the House of Commons and the House of Lords.

    The above link will give you the results of the search, "bilderberg", now if such Conspiracies do not exist or are just "theories" or just imaginations in our feeble minds for which we have no evidence, what on earth are Members of Parliament and Lords asking such questions about groups of powerfull men meeting secretly to conspire if such do not exist?

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Hey, Nambo. Your question had me look up Bilderberg (wiki), as well as run a few searches of www.theyworkforyou.com. From what I can see, Bilderberg is not a secret group, but rather one that is invitation-only. A member has also wryly noted that if they supposedly controlled the world, they've done a miserable job of it.

    I then checked the searches:

    Bilderberg - 17

    G8 - 3,757

    UN - 21,577

    The results aren't terribly surprising.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    I believe the phrase you're referencing is

    Bingo. using your conspiracy mirror to look backwards gives a distorted view.

  • SnowQueen
    SnowQueen

    In my earlier post I wrote “there is no one 'secret' society, but a network of inter-related elite groups that go under several different names whose primary aim is to forward the agenda of global government.” A one-world government may be neither an explicitly stated aim nor a covert one of these groups, however it certainly seems to be considered 'a worthy ideal' among many of their members.

    The UN’s stated goals revolve around international (aka world) co-operation, justice, security and peace', with several organisations such as the World Health Organisation set up to address key issues on a global level; and the G8, the world's economic elite, meets to 'discuss issues of global concern' - so it seems that we already have the foundations for a world government in place and that these structures will inevitably evolve and grow in power and influence.

    The Bilderberg Group is not a secret society, just a highly secretive group, since meetings are strictly private and purposefully off-the-record. The stated reasons for this have their benefits, although it does mean we have to trust that the attendees have noble intentions, since they cannot be held accountable in any way for what they say or how they influence the others in attendance.

    Thanks for the link Nambo. Considering the annual Bilderberg meeting has been held 5 times in the UK since the first meeting in ‘54 – in Buxton in ‘58, Cambridge in ‘67, and Torquay in ’77, then in Scotland at Gleneagles in 86 and Turnberry in ’98 (England seems long overdue to host another) – there are surprisingly few references to it in the Houses of Parliament.

    The first recorded mention of the annual conference was in 1973 (a reference to a discussion on nuclear power), four years later a concern was raised in passing (around the time the conference was last held in England), next an off-hand remark in a discussion around defence in 99, then we start to see questions about attendees, contributions to debates, meeting schedules, expenses (bearing in mind that delegates attend in a private capacity, not in their public capacity) and details relating to the last meeting in the UK, but no-one seems to be giving much away. Lists of meeting delegates and discussion topics (as well as MP expenses) are published, so they may have answered some their own questions outside the House, however a few questions stand out:

    Q: Norman Baker (Lewes, Liberal Democrat) - 12 October 2006

    To ask the Prime Minister in which years since 1993 (a) he and (b) other Government Ministers have attended meetings of the Bilderberg group. Gleneagles in 86

    A: Tony Blair (Prime Minister; Sedgefield, Labour)

    The information requested is not held centrally.

    Q: Norman Baker (Lewes, Liberal Democrat) - 19 October 2006

    To ask the Prime Minister pursuant to the answer of 12 October 2006, Official Report, column 862W, on the Bilderberg Group, if he will provide the information requested in respect of himself since 1997.

    A: Tony Blair (Prime Minister; Sedgefield, Labour)

    I have not attended any such meetings.

    NB: In 1998 an MP asked Blair the same question to which he gave the same answer, that he had never attended a Bilderberg meeting. However, the evidence clearly shows he was there. A number of mainstream media reports, plus the official Bilderberg attendee list, confirm that Blair attended Bilderberg in Athens in 1993 (admittedly the question was about the years since 1993/97, so technically Blair could be right in saying he had not attended since then, although I'd be surprised if he hadn't attended whilst serving as PM. If the group is genuinely about sharing ideas and improving public relations why would he need to restrict or hide his involvement with the group?). See http://www.infowars.net/articles/October2006/201006Bilderberg.htm

    Q: Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Independent Labour) - 24 October 2006

    Asked Her Majesty's Government: Whether any Ministers attended the Bilderberg Conference in Ottawa between 8 and 11 June; if so, whether they attended in a ministerial or private capacity; whether they made contributions to debates; and, if so, on which subjects.

    A: Lord Bassam of Brighton (Government Whip (technically a Lord in Waiting, HM Household); Labour)

    All ministerial visits are conducted in accordance with the Ministerial Code and Travel by Ministers. Since 1999, the Government have published annually a list of overseas travel by Cabinet Ministers costing over £500 and the total cost of all ministerial travel. Information for 2005-06 was published on Monday 24 July 2006. Copies are available in the Library for the reference of noble Lords. Information for 2006-07 will be published as soon as possible after the end of the financial year.

    NB: Despite asking the same question three times (again on the 2nd of November and the 30th of November) he doesn’t appear to have had any parts of it answered.

    Q: Norman Baker (Lewes, Liberal Democrat) - 15 January 2007

    To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer in which years since 1997 (a) he and (b) other Treasury Ministers have attended meetings of the Bilderberg Group.

    A: John Healey (Financial Secretary, HM Treasury; Wentworth, Labour)

    Treasury Ministers and officials have meetings with a wide range of organisations and individuals in the public and private sectors as part of the process of policy development and delivery. As was the case with previous Administrations, it is not the Government's practice to provide details of all such meetings.

    Not secret, but strictly private and confidential!

    Interestingly, Wikipedia notes the following:

    In his 1980 essay The Bilderberg and the West , researcher Peter Thompson argues that the Bilderberg group is a meeting ground for top executives from the world’s leading multinational corporations and top national political figures to consider jointly the immediate and long-term problems facing the West. According to Thompson, Bilderberg itself is not an executive agency, but when Bilderberg participants reach a form of consensus about what is to be done they have at their disposal powerful transnational and national instruments for bringing about what it is they want to come to pass.

    In 2001, Denis Healey, a Bilderberg group founder and, for 30 years, a steering committee member, said: "To say we were striving for a one-world government is exaggerated, but not wholly unfair. Those of us in Bilderberg felt we couldn't go on forever fighting one another for nothing and killing people and rendering millions homeless. So we felt that a single community throughout the world would be a good thing ."

    Author James McConnachie comments that conspiracy theorists have a point, but that they fail to communicate it effectively. He argues that the Bilderberg group acts in a manner consistent with a global conspiracy, but does so without the same "degree of nefariousness", a difference not appreciated by conspiracy theorists, who "tend to see this cabal as outright evil." McConnachie concludes: "Occasionally you have to give credit to conspiracy theorists who raise issues that the mainstream press has ignored. It's only recently that the media has picked up on the Bilderbergers. Would the media be running stories if there weren't these wild allegations flying around?"

    The BBC wrote a well-written and balanced article on conspiracies in June last year entitled 'Bilderberg mystery: Why do people believe in cabals?' Worth a read... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13682082 (The comments are pretty good too.)

    (PS. The site keeps messing up the formatting, so some bolding is unintentional!)

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    But if they are secret, how do you know there is an inter-related group of elites? If you know that, then, by definition, they AREN'T secret.

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