Anonymous Message to Watchtower

by jwleaks 343 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • DT
    DT

    jameshahon,

    I appreciate your perspective, even if I disagree with much of it. Child abuse issues have aspects that are counterintuitve and can be be difficult to discuss without making people upset. Releasing a list like that would cause some problems and unintended consequences.

    They way I see it, the Watchtower Society has a list of people who should not be elders or ministerial servents (even if they are innocent, they have had at least two accusations so they shouldn't have positions of authority). Yet some on that list are elders or ministerial servents. Some should have been reported to the police but haven't been. I think it is justified to release that list so that obvious problems can be resolved. However, it pays to keep a cool head and remember that the Watchtower Society's incompetence insures that at least a few of those people are innocent.

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    Cedars

    No - I think you have misunderstood the report. It is about community notification of convicted child molestors. Megan's Law is not blanket notification like you get in California or I saw in florida last year. But releasing this list is community notification. Look at the primary conclusion:

    Most states have very little evidence on the actual impact of community
    notification on their jurisdiction. Most of the understood benefits of the laws
    are based on assumptions about the nature of sexual offending and the
    behaviour of parents and community members. Such assumptions are rarely
    supported through research, but continue to legitimise the law for law
    enforcement workers and members of the public.

    And just to pull one of the sentences off the para you put up

    Offenders who have
    gone underground are a greater threat to children
    as they cannot be monitored, nor made subject to
    treatment and supervision.

    As I said before most of the people on this list have (I think it can be assumed) not been convicted of molestation. The only supervision they may have is the congregation members who are aware of their past behaviour. So hounding them out of the congregation is going to do what exactly? Reduce the likelihood they offend?

    You state that releasing this list will cause insurmountable damage to the umbrella organisation. Well, no one will know I suppose one way or the other until it is released. I'm not so sure why you think it will. The Catholic Church is not exactly on its knees last time I looked despite systematic cover up from the pope down and loads of convictions of priests and bishops. And that scandal has been going on for years and frequently makes the press. So I doubt this will make sod all difference to the R&F. As for changing policy, if anything changes there policy it will be the countless millions they are going to have to pay out to Conti et al. If that doesn't then I am afraid releasing 20,000 names will not make them change.

    It was only last year I saw on the news a JW child molestor being convicted in court that was being supported by his congregation. So even if the policy changes there are some deep seated attitudes that will have to change first for any policy to work. Look at Blindnomores' experience. This had nothing to do with policy.

    I would throw this back to you, not in an aggressive or patronising way but it is difficult in typing sometimes. Is your hatred for the WTBTS and their policy towards child molestors clouding your own judgement in this area? If it doesn't matter if there are some casualties in the cross fire would you be happy if anonymous merged the child molestor list with the elder list and bumped the names up to say, 80,000. I mean - some of those elders will be molestors that have not been caught and the rest just support the policy anyway so they are just as guilty right? And it will do serious damage to the organisation which is all that matters.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    bump

  • flipper
    flipper

    JAMES MAHON - Is your supportive WT / JW apologist attitude clouding your sense of right and wrong regarding your covering up the WT society's faulty child abuse policy's ? Come on James, what's in this for you, huh ? Are you with Bethel legal ? What is the WT society doing for you ? You seem so eager to support their criminally negligent behavior. Just curious

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Anonymous..

    Is one of the Best things that has Happened for Us..

    It`s too late for WBT$ Apologists to spin Pointless Objections..

    In an Attempt to Protect the WBT$..

    The Plug has been Pulled and the..

    WBT$ Reputation..

    Is Circling the Drain..

    ............................ ...OUTLAW

  • TheClarinetist
    TheClarinetist

    I don't know... Anonymous deals more in cyber attacks and demonstrations... Getting that list would take infiltration and espionage. Still... I expect we'll see something in a couple years from this... possibly. Probably not anytime soon.

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    Cedars

    You have accused me have ignoring your points before which I try not to so I apologise. But I think I could throw that straight back at you. It may be in part that you have posted something else whilst I have been posting so I will try and go through parts of your posts I have missed (at least on this page, if i go back I lose the post I am making).

    I read the NSPCC report with no prior belief about community notification schemes (which this report is about). I was surprised at its findings but I can't ignore them because I am surprised.

    Anyway, will go through your posts I missed:

    If you're seriously suggesting for one moment that extracting and publicizing the paedophile list will not serve to prevent children from being molested in the future (with DT's last comment being just one example of how this would be so) then you are on your own, my friend.

    There is no evidence that community notification - in its many forms - works. There is some evidence it does not. You don't see this as community notification which is why we may differ on views. And being on my own does not mean I am wrong or right. The sad part is that should the list get released we will never know whether it stopped any abuse or not or caused any. You are right that a scheme identical to this has never been done. But there is evidence on schemes close to this that show they do not work or cause harm so there is a precedent. You think the evidence is not close enough to this situation. I would argue it is close enough to be concerned.

    This will unquestionably hinder the organization's ability to continue with its policies and/or retain credbility for attracting new converts and potential victims.

    Errm, I think you may just have been as guilty as you accused me of being when I said the evidence is clear. I have I think given pretty good reasons why this may not be the case.

    I don't disagree with the NSPCC report. It's just talking about something almost completely different than what is being proposed. It's a shame you can't see that. I wonder why you can't.

    It is community notification. Period. Accept without the normal safeguards and control that are usually in place with community notification. And the people are not convicted but accused. What is the same as in the report:

    • A list of people that can be of potential harm to children will be released to the public.

    Now what is different:

    • The people are accused and not convicted (potentially). If they are convicted than the reports findings are even more comparable.
    • The people named may have good standing in their community which has facilitated their abuse. This is potentially a significant difference and what people here are arguing for I think. The problem is that many may have good standing and be innocent and have this good standing completely removed. However, will put that to one side and assume all on the list are guilty. If these people are child molestors then yes, it will stop help their abuse in the congregation especially if they are removed as elders. But look at the way some congregations support convicted molestors. In any case, they will soon find a way to satisfy their appetites either in the same hall, moving to a different one or just trying a completely different tactic. The prevalence of child abuse in society indicates that it is unfortunately not diffiult to move onto another target. What I would suggest matters is that children are encouraged to come forwards about the abuse and are listened to and the crime reported to the police when they do. The JWs fail miserably at this but releasing this list will not stop that happening or improve their policy. I'm afraid I just don't see that happening at all as this is a deep seeted cultural thing coming from a Governing Body that thinks molestation is no worse than adultery.
    • The people are not supervised by professionals. I'm afraid this makes the findings more likely to be worse for releasing this list. If monitored at all it is by the same incompetent elders who did not think they should report the matter to the police. Would suggest that this means either no change or the person will simply move to a different congregation (or church) under a different name and start again. Again, look at the behaviour of Conti's abuser each time he got found out. Just move and change and start again. I could be wrong but the Conti ruling was not because the abuser's name was not made known to the congregation but that his actions had not been reported to the police and the elders had failed to protect children by allowing him to be alone with them.

    I would be interested to know why you are so keen for the findings of the report not to be comparable.

    Sorry, can't go back pages. But if there is a specific point you made that proves I am on another planet then please paste and I will respond.

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    Flipper. I have read your posts before and enjoyed them and not noticed this side of you before. You do realise that at best you have said I am someone who would defend child molestors and at worst a chlid molestor myself. As someone that has been abused myself that is low. I thought more of the people on the board to allow this to just wash past as the rest of you jumped on me without, I assume, actually reading the posts.

    Ulitmately I disagree that this act will protect children. Not just abused children, but children of men wrongly accused. Admittedly the latter is hypothetical although everyone agrees this would happen and I am shocked that the attitude is 'so what? Price worth paying'. My opinion that it will possibly put more children at risk is not from some wishy washy liberal perspective but from an assessment of the available evidence from a child protection charity.

    Debate the points and I will respond. Perhaps you could begin by telling me why the release of these names is different to the community notification in the NSPCC report in such a way that the conclusion will be different?

  • flipper
    flipper

    For James Mahon and anybody else who cares :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLAC9kS_EqM

  • metaspy
    metaspy

    New info on the anon vs watchtower...

    http://pastebin.com/3NitcTLF

    Anon usually uses pastebin to organize the info then things start happening.

    The ball... it is already rolling

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit