Heck you've persuaded me LMSA - stuff the Falklanders and their bigotry. Argentina its all yours. If you fancy Wales let me know about an unrelated story and you can have that as well.
David Cameron Confronts Cristina Fernandez (UK v Argentina)
by cofty 182 Replies latest social current
-
-
Chariklo
The British need to get off the islands. Period.
I'm just siding with the under dog.
Nomad Soul, I think you'll find the underdog here is the Falkland Islanders.
Just about 3,000 of them, remembering when they woke up one morning to find their flag hauled down and replaced with that of another, Argentina, their large neighbour, and armed men roaming their streets.
Don't you think they have a right to say who they see as their friends? Don't they have a right to choose their own future?
Who do you think you would see as the underdog if you lived there?
-
slimboyfat
LMSA I may have missed it but have you explained anywhere why the people who live on the Falkland Islands should not have the power to decide who rules over them?
-
Chariklo
“Falkland Islanders to determine sovereignty” – Cameron
On the 30th anniversary of the Governor’s return to the Falkland Islands following the war in 1982, David Cameron, the British Prime Minister, spoke of the Islands in the House of Commons; ”The islanders have had to put up with endless attempts at endless summits to put a question mark over their future. They want to determine that future themselves.”
Speaking on his return from the G20 summit in Mexico, where he’d put Britain’s position across very clearly to Argentina’s President, Cristina Fernandez, Cameron added; “No one should be in any doubt that as far as the British Government is concerned, it is Falkland Islanders who will determine the sovereignty of the islands. I believe their view will be respected by this House, this country and by the world.”
http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/06/26/falkland-islanders-to-determine-sovereignty-cameron/
PS: Simply by copying and pasting, I unintentionally discovered a way to include a photo in a post here. I wasn't even trying to, but it is a first for me!
-
Las Malvinas son Argentinas
sbf -
I have said before that I have no desire to disrupt the islanders' lifestyle and unique culture. My modus operandi has been to explain the facts and history related to the dispute, and thus apply the Argentine position. The Argentine station on Isla Soledad (later renamed to East Falkland) was sacked, its population forcibly deported, and all that remained was a prison colony and a few Argentine gauchos. It was an act of piracy at worst, and colonialism at its best. As Israel is finding out, military conquest does no establish legal title to the land. The Falklanders are there and well established, but they live on land which was invaded and thereafter settled. Britain's main argument for removing the Malvinas from the UN's official list of colonised territories is that the islands are semi-autonomous. While this is somewhat true, they still make up an overseas dependency of the UK. They do not have Dominion status like Australia or Canada - the mark of de facto if not de jure independence.
I look at the historical parallels everywhere and apply the situation when applicable to the Malvinas. Israel has settlements and should they ever take a vote, they would be unilaterally annexed to Israel. Does that mean that the illegal occupation should be legitimatised due to the settlers having a vote? How about a Tibetan plebiscite now that the Han Chinese make up the majority in Tibet? The concept of 'self-determination' has unfortunately been an abused one in the post-colonial age. Now did the British take a poll of the Argentine gauchos and the recently deported Malvineros who were just dusting themselves off in Buenos Aires? Would they have even cared what these people thought about what government they desired? They rounded up who they could and sent them packing to Montevideo, while letting the people useful to them (such as the remaining members of Argentine governor Luis Vernet's administration) stay should they accept British control. Fast-forward to 180 years later, and that seems to have cleansed the consciences of the reformed colonialists. Simon Jenkins of London's Guardian argues that the 'Falklands' are a colonial anachronism and supported leaseback. The islands would remain under British administration, while legal title to the islands would belong to Argentina. We don't seek a colony. They can have their own governor and legislative body. But you can't ignore history and selectively apply the 'self-determination' principle only when its beneficial to your cause. That the islands have and will continue to have a British character is not what we are concerned about. We seek a dialogue regarding our rights to the islands, as anyone who finds themselves on the ass-end of imperialism might attest to.
Qcmbr - At least James Peck had a Malvinas related story to it. We were speaking about the audacity of Argentine athletes making a Malvinas protest at the London Olympics. The Peck case demonstrates that there are strong and often abrasive attitudes on both sides of the dispute. Wales had nothing to do with this conversation and you unilaterally brought it into it in an apparent attempt to make an absurd point.
-
slimboyfat
Are any of the Spanish who were removed from the Falklands still alive?
I don't think you have answered my question. Why should the islanders not be allowed to decide who governs them?
-
slimboyfat
And by the way, when did the indigenous people of Argentina consent to allow Spanish settlers to rule their land? Will the Argentine government be making moves to restore that land?
You talk about colonialism as if the Spanish were victims rather than instigators.
-
St George of England
Why would anyone on the Falklands want to be ruled by the Argentinians? They are the very people who in their short stay on the Falklands rendered vast areas out of bounds by sowing hundreds of thousands of mines.
Even now, 30 years after the conflict, mine clearance is still going on, no doubt at the expense of the BRITISH taxpayer, we should send the bill to Fernandez and her chums.
George
-
Diest
It was an act of piracy at worst, and colonialism at its best.
How can European colonists cry colonialism? I think the part of the Argentine story that makes it ring so hallow is that it was one group or Europeans that kicked another group of Europeans off of a rock. This is not some Island Group that is claimed by a group of natives since the 900s. Look around South America, there are millions of indigenous people who can cry colonialism, but when a bunch of White Argentines cry about losing a rock 180 years ago I have no sympathy. Land disputes dot the globe and there are too many to count.
We are talking about a country where the indigenous population is around 1%. None of whom lived on the Falklands. Speaking Spanish does not rise to the level of being an oppressed native group.
If you need to fight for someone I am sure there are many Indigenous Argentines who would love your help getting their land back. You can go over to help out in neighboring Bolivia and fight for them. No one is going to cry for Argentina.
P.S. Like the Spanish didn’t use Piracy to take things from others....
-
cofty
We seek a dialogue regarding our rights to the islands, as anyone who finds themselves on the ass-end of imperialism might attest to.
If we are going back to year zero this gentleman would like a chat...
