The "30 Other Lands" in the Worldwide Report - revealed!

by cedars 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  slimboyfat

  It would be interesting to get a percentage on the world's population reachable through the Society's literature alone, even if the percentage turns out to be flattering.

  I can't remember where, but I think I remember it being stated that they publish in enough languages to be intelligible to something like 99% of the world's population. I remember because it made me ponder the isolated Amazonian tribes with no available literature. Poor folk eh?

  By the way, do you still need me to produce references to prove the Society exaggerating the numbers it is attracting through the preaching work, or the worldwide scope of its preaching work?

  Sure they use flowery language to describe their numbers and progress. But they also produce exact figures and ratios to a greater extent than perhaps any other religious group. If anything census returns often show that the Watchtower figures understate their level of adherence. Rightly accuse the Watchtower of many things, but saying they exaggerate their numbers is barking up the wrong tree. Even Penton makes this point in Apocalypse Delayed. Of course they colour the information with their belief that they are being guided by God and blessed with growth. But they are a religion - what do you expect? Complaining that they claim divine blessing and growth is a bit like complaining that an alcoholic drinks alcohol in the morning: true enough, but hardly surprising.
• 

  cedars

  Slimboyfat - I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this, which is a shame because you're a reasonable fellow and it seems fairly cut and dried. Just because the Society produces a nine-page statistical report (8 pages with 1 page summary) every year, which (to my knowledge) is no longer even considered in the Watchtower study, does not mean they can be lauded for their honesty and transparency. It certainly doesn't mean that their frequent exaggerated claims of reaching the whole earth with their message should be overlooked.

  The many pages printed every year containing propaganda and 'flowery language' as you put it far outweigh the 9 page report, which mentions "30 Other Lands" comprising 27% of the planet's population almost as a footnote. Hitting people with a load of numbers that few will be bothered to analyse does not mean they acknowledge their relative insignificance on the world stage.

  I always found it curious that the Society didn't cite the combined population for these "Other Lands" on the report, leaving instead a blank space where the number should be - now I know why! It's humiliating.

  Cedars
• 

  slimboyfat

  I always found it curious that the Society didn't cite the combined population for these "Other Lands" on the report

  I think a good reason for not doing so is that such a figure would confirm their presence in China in particular, which would defeat the purpose of keeping the banned countries nameless to protect the brothers.

  I don't think their claims of global reach are particularly exaggerated. What other sect of their size reaches so many people spread out so evenly across the earth? I seriously doubt there are any. The Mormons are nowhere near. Adventists probably have similar reach and some Pentecostal groups may be close too.
• 

  cedars

  What other sect of their size reaches so many people spread out so evenly across the earth?

  Yes, but Slimboyfat - it's irrelevant how "finely spread" JWs are. The fact is, they're not reaching anywhere close to "many people" as you put it when you consider just how many people there are and how many JWs there are, particularly in those lands highlighted in my diagram where the work is either banned or there are virtually no JWs at all (1 in a million in Bangladesh).

  You can have a JW in each and every conceivable country of the earth, but that's not the stated aim of the preaching campaign. The stated aim of the preaching campaign is to reach everyone on the planet with the message before Armageddon, in fulfilment of Matthew 24:14. How can your average Bangladeshi realistically have any chance of hearing "this good news of the kingdom" if he only has a 1 in a million chance of encountering a JW when he steps out of his door in the morning, assuming he has time/inclination to hear that person's message? How is a "witness" being given "to all the nations" under such impossible circumstances?

  You seem to be approaching the issue from a corporate/logistical standpoint, whereas I am approaching this from a JW standpoint. When you compare the info concealed in the worldwide report with the religious claims and aspirations of the Society as regards the preaching work, the two just don't add up. It can't be a case of "well we're doing our best" when lives are supposedly at stake. Surely you can see that?

  Cedars
• 

  cofty

  Great work on that map cedars
• 

  venetian

  This is a fascinating thread, thank you cedars for your hard work on this. I was wondering what effect the earths population growth would have on these figures. If, for example, the population grew by 3% a year, how many extra JW's each year would be needed to preach to that number?

  Of course this also means that the longer Jehovah delays armageddon, the more people his Witnesses will have to preach to, and ultimately the more people Jehovah will have to destroy.

  If thats the case, then it make a mockery of the teaching that God is holding back armageddon until the preaching work is done.
• 

  slimboyfat

  Aye, they don't call me semi-apologist for nothing.
• 

  cedars

  cofty - thanks, glad you like the diagram! Now I've figured out how to make those things, I may well do more in the future. It does help to put things in perspective. A simple list of countries doesn't really do it justice.

  venetian - yes, rising population is another factor worth considering. I believe the current world population is now something like 7.008 billion, but I prefer to work with 7 billion as a nice round number. I also try not to factor in population growth too much, because in doing so I am avoiding the accusation of inflating the figures to suit my arguments. In short, I would rather deal with a "best case scenario" for the Society than a worst case scenario, even though the latter would probably be more realistic.

  slimboyfat - och, away with you!

  Cedars
• 

  slimboyfat

  According to a search it was AlanF who accused me of being a semi-apologist five years ago. I guess I don't change that much. Interesting old thread:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/121476/2/The-WTS-fornicating-with-CESNUR

  But seriously cedars I think from a secular point of view JWs do very well.
• 

  blondie

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/176731/1/Why-will-Jehovah-kill-all-the-Chinese-people

  After these comments by the WTS, do individual jws feel it is necessary to speak to each person at least once?

  *** w10 9/15 p.10 par.12***

  We recognize that the end could come at any time; Jehovah’s timing is not contingent on our giving a personal witness to every individual on the planet. (Matt. 10:23)

  *** w00 1/15 p.13 par.17***

  True, untouched territories still exist, and it may be that in Jehovah’s due time, a large door leading to greater activity will open. (1 Corinthians 16:9) Nevertheless, the Bible does not state that Jehovah will wait until every individual on earth has received a personal witness. Rather, the good news must be preached to Jehovah’s satisfaction. Then the end will come.—Compare Matthew 10:23.

  *** w97 8/15 p.14 par.11***

  Today, Jehovah’s Witnesses carry out their work in 233 lands, island groups, and territories. True, untouched territories still exist, and perhaps in Jehovah’s due time, a door of opportunity will open. (1 Corinthians 16:9) Still, Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 10:23 are sobering: “You will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.” While the good news will surely be announced throughout the earth, we will not in person reach all parts of the earth with the Kingdom message before Jesus “arrives” as Executioner.