Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "but an Atheist can only give an answer such as:"In a world where there is no God what do you expect?", "That is just the way it is", "Too bad", "That's just your bad luck" or "That's your problem". ..." Andrew Shithead

    No, those are YOUR words, not those of "atheists". You're putting words into your "strawman's" mouth, and then attacking it - er, 'him'...

    And religion CANNOT duck responsibility for all the evils committed in the NAME OF THEIR GODS... Much as they might try.

    You yammer about the tortures committed by atheist communists, but those people were NOT committing those tortures BECAUSE they were atheists... They were doing so, because they were attached to a PARTICULAR political movement which accepted the use of BRUTAL means to achieve their goals, if necessary... Exactly like religion does when it makes "converts" by force.

    One DOES NOT SEE secular/atheist governments such as Sweden, France, the Netherlands, Finland, Japan, and others, using brutal tactics.

    On the other hand, Russia has used brutal tactics in the past, during highly religious monarchies and Christian governments. When Russia became "atheist communist", the abuses continued, and even now, as Russia converts back to a highly religious state, the abuses CONTINUE...

    It all depends on what a group of people is willing to do, in order to achieve the "group" goal.

    Whether theist or atheist, the presence of or lack of abuses/brutality depends on whether the group's leaders feel bound by laws, or "above" the law - whether communist atheist no longer bound by what they PERCEIVE as the edicts of a Bronze-Age Middle-Eastern male "god", or theists no longer bound by "HUMAN" laws because they BELIEVE that they are ABOVE such laws by their acceptance of a Bronze-Age Middle-Eastern male "god"...

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    It seems that such tales actually went more like this - a natural disaster occurs, and after the dust clears the surrounding primitive, ignorant, superstitious peoples view the unfortunate occurance as a "Judgement From 'gawd'" upon the victims, who are THEN viewed as being "evil" - er, "eeeeeeeeeeeee-vil", "wicked", "demonized", and so on...

    I think you are being too liberal with your use of the word ignorant. There is a difference between avoiding data that is available and not having the capability to find it. The conversation between Abraham and YHWH over the destruction of the Sodom of Gomorrah is evidence that they didn't believe their God would kill innocent people who lived among many evil people. Despite of all the horrors and destruction in their lives they didn't call God a monster like the creator of the video in the OP does who lives in a free world by comparison. It's a fallacy to think that curing ignorance exposes God as evil because he wasn't even considered evil back then when he supposedly destroyed entire nations with floods and volcanos. To paint the surviver's assessement of their own carnage as ignorant is just odd to me. Fast forward a thousand years from now and suddenly even the great Ziddina becomes an ignorant swine.

    -Sab

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Knucklehead - er, Sabastious - there's no solid archaeological proof that "Abraham" ever existed - any more than there's any secular Roman proof of the period that "Jesus" existed... [Hey! HE plays "ad hominem": "and suddenly even the great Ziddina becomes an ignorant swine...." then I play "ad hominem"...]

    And this comment:

    "To paint the surviver's assessement of their own carnage as ignorant..."

    Shows that you neither read my post thoroughly nor grasped what I was saying...

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    I thought Zids use of the word ignorant was quite fitting...

    ig·no·rant /'ign?r?nt/
    Adjective:
    1. Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
    2. Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy".

    I think I am still ignorant about many things....we all are to some extent.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Knucklehead - er, Sabastious - there's no solid archaeological proof that "Abraham" ever existed - any more than there's any secular Roman proof of the period that "Jesus" existed... [Hey! HE plays "ad hominem": "and suddenly even the great Ziddina becomes an ignorant swine...." then I play "ad hominem"...]

    It wasn't an insult, Zid. I think it's funny that you thought I was because it was actually a compliment (look up the word "great" in the dictionary). I have a lot of respect for you, not this miniute, but generally I do. We all are completely unaware of the science that is available 1000 years from now, are you going to dispute that? We are all ignorant swine in comparison to our successors 1,000 years from now who have access to information we dont. Just as we have access to information the Bronze Age people didn't. It doesn't matter whether or not Abraham existed because the story itself is the evidence, not the people it's refering to. The very idea of a compassionate God is present within the Genesis writings which means that they didn't blame God for their woes, they blamed themselves which is the correct way to look at things. As opposed to what the video is portraying.

    -Sab

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "It wasn't an insult, Zid. I think it's funny that you thought I was because it was actually a compliment (look up the word "great" in the dictionary). I have a lot of respect for you, not this miniute, but generally I do...." Sab

    Nice backtracking...

    "We all are completely unaware of the science that is available 1000 years from now, are you going to dispute that? We are all ignorant swine in comparison to our successors 1,000 years from now who have access to information we dont. ..." Sab

    Problem is, YOU'RE ignorant of the sciences that exist TODAY...

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    I thought Zids use of the word ignorant was quite fitting...

    I didn't say it was an incorrect usage, I said it was a liberal usage. Calling people who lived 3,000 years ago ignorant is about as compelling as saying that water is wet.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Nice backtracking...

    Are you calling me a liar? I didn't insult you, I called you great. I'll refrain from complimenting you in the future.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Problem is, YOU'RE ignorant of the sciences that exist TODAY...

    -Sab

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "It doesn't matter whether or not Abraham existed because the story itself is the evidence, not the people it's refering to...." Sab

    Yeah, like the stories of "Paul Bunyan", "Pecos Bill", and "Sherlock Holmes", are all "evidence" that "they" "exist", too....

    "...The very idea of a compassionate God is present within the Genesis writings ..."

    Aaaahh.... Sab, you need to GO BACK and RE-READ the bible again...

    THIS time do it AFTER you've done quite a bit of research on the subjects of archaeology and paleo-archaeology...

    Y'know...

    SCIENCE...

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