Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  sabastious

  so why did they change from goddess to god? Why didn't they just worship god in the first place? They didn't worship the sun first, they worshipped the goddess...didn't god get his message across properly to begin with?

  The ancient sculpture is not a "first" for human worship it's just really old. There's no empirical way to prove whether or not the sun or the godess was worshipped first, we lack the data. In order to figure it out we must use philosophy. The sun is the bringer of life because it provides food. Without the food the woman, the vessel of life, would not be able to to sustain herself or her child which makes the sun more powerful than the woman therefore logically the human mind would look to the sun first then the woman to worship.

  -Sab
• 

  tec

  so what is the similarity in the goddess that by the way is older than your god? The only similarity I can see throughout history, is that humans have felt the need to explain the unexplained and a need to believe there is something after death because we don't want to let go of life. But there is no evidence that any of it is truth. Maybe belief was simply the precursor to science....the enquiring mind thinking of possibilities. A spiritual need... a seeking? Not because humans 'felt the need to eplain the uneplainable'... but because there IS more, and part of them knew and sought that? They came to conclusions based upon what they saw around them... females gave birth, therefore brought forth life. So a goddess is more in tune with that.

  
  Just thinking outloud. Don't know if that is an official thought or not.

  so why did they change from goddess to god?

  Different understanding?

  I don't think God is male or female. He is spirit. We identify Him as male (or female), or neither, depending upon the information we draw upon, and perhaps also our culture.

  The femalse as a vessel of life... the sun as a vessel of life... sounds to me like people understood that our creator is a vessel of life, but just didn't know what to identify that with, and so drew upon things that they could see with their physical senses.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  still thinking

  sounds to me like they made it all up....but I'm just thinking out loud...LOL
• 

  still thinking

  Now I'm guessing if they made up God...then evil was next...a concept created to control people.

  Be good...or God/the gods/godessess won't like it....and maybe they would cause a drought...or flood....or disease...or all the things we now know are just nature and the result of nature.....superstition is a fabulous way of controlling people....it even works today.
• 

  Andrew Sh

  Christian Apologists - Please watch this and tell us why it is wrong?

  The video is titled "How God favours Evil" and is designed, I believe, to prove to us there is actually no God. It is a favourite idea from Atheism.

  So on that basis I seek to answer it:-

  1. To think you have shown that two things are unlikely to co-exist together, such as the existence of God and the existence of evil, is very different from proving the two cannot co-exist. It is not proof at all.

  2. "There is no God as described in the Bible because how could a God of love and total power stand idly by when evil is happening? Therefore there is no God of love and power. There is no God at all." - But how do you know it is evil? What is evil? Please define it. I have looked up "evil" in the English dictionary. It says "morally wrong or bad, wicked" for the primary definiton. Not very helpful is it? For a start, who decides what is morally wrong?

  If there is no God, then there is no absolute truth and no absolute definition of evil either. If there is no God, then life is meaningless, people are meaningless, and all actions just happen. The video is just showing one meaningless life form being violent against another meaningless life form, and how can anyone say it is intrinsically evil? Who decides? If you deny the existence of God then all actions are essentially morally neutral. There are no absolute standards of morality. As someone at my previous workplace once said "There is no God and you and I are no more valuable than a fly." Violence against another human being is then no different from violence against a fly.

  So, logically, the argument is self-refuting. If there is no God then there is no evil either. We cannot live by such a belief. If God does not exist then there is no means by which to determine what is evil in order to condemn it.

  3. The mere fact that evil does exist is itself an evidence for the existence of God. The problem of evil requires that God exists. As Alvin Plantinga claims there is a theistic argument from evil, and it is at least as strong as the anti-theistic argument from evil:-

  A - If God does not exist, transcendental, objective values of good and evil do not exist.

  B - Evil does exist.

  C - Therefore objective values exist, and some things are really, basically, fundamentally bad.

  D - Therefore God exists.

  4. The existence of evil in society is an evidence for the truth of the Bible that "all have sinned and fall shortof the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) and that "the heart is deceitful above all things and desparately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9).

  5. If God were to stop all evil, like Superman would, then He would have to stop all of us from living, "for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth" (Genesis 8:21). All of us are only evil all the time, when measured in the scales of God's standards: He charges even the angels with folly (Job 4:18).

  6. God has solved the problem of evil, He gave His only Son to take the punishment for our sins on the cross. This is the beginning of the solution: the final Day of Judgement will be the consumation: when those who have believed shall be transported to where there is no more evil, and those who have rejected the Son shall be given their choice.

  7. I don't believe we can understand everything about the God of the Bible or his ways with mankind. (Deuteronomy 29:29) "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong unto us and our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."

  Certainly this is true when we consider how He allows evil. But just because we cannot understand everything is no reason to abandon belief altogether of things about God that we do know. To deny what we do know on the basis of things which we do not know is bad logic. I know that there is a God and that He is the God of the Bible. Just becaus eI do not know everything is no reason to stop believing in Him.

  I have been reading "Does God believe in Atheists?" by John Blanchard. It is 655 pages. No self-respecting Atheist should be without it.
• 

  NewChapter

  Ah the old argument. People can't know evil without a god. Where does that leave atheists? We define evil all the time, but don't believe in a god. Natural selection has refined us to know that hurtful actions reduce our chance of survival, therefore many of us are repulsed by it.

  There is no meaning or value to life without a god? Again, where does that leave atheists?

  And the idea that there is no god is not only a favorite idea for atheists, but actually, the only definition of an atheist. But more accurate would be to say that there is no evidence for a god or gods.

  I find it sad that some people believe they cannot know evil without an outside entity telling them so. That they can't discern what would be right or wrong, according to culture, time and circumstance, without some kind of rule book. People that really buy that notion that humans are evil hearted and will plan to do bad without intervention. Very sad indeed. To me, THIS makes life meaningless and without value. You're already doomed when you are born. It's truly a depressing way to look at life.

  I'm glad I'm no longer shackled by such beliefs. Humans are humans, and we know how to do right, and some of us choose to do bad. We have to solve these problems ourselves, because there is no supreme power to make it all better, and he/it/she certainly will not intervene if it is out there somewhere. Pretty much, the only way to deal with these problems is to deal with them as atheists do---even if you are a believer. You can expect no intervention or help, so you do what you can. Just like atheists.

  I wonder if people would manifest such evil if they weren't always told that their hearts were evil from birth, that they were already wretched sinners? I don't suppose we can know that answer, but looking at prison statistics may give us a starting point. LOL Tell your beautiful little baby that he is already evil with a heart inclined toward evil, and who knows what kind of mind game that plays.

  Ah well.

  NC
• 

  tootired2care

  First off, I don't think existence is what is being argued in this thread. It's more like this. Even if there is a god out there who started all of this he obviously doesn't care and wants to hold our species hostage so why should we bother worry about him?

  For a start, who decides what is morally wrong?

  It really isn't that difficult, over time, experience is gained on what works and what doesn't (natural selection as NC brought out). Then it's just a matter of group consensus, and crafting laws around the principals of freedom, and not violating other individual rights, and a series of penalties (death penalty included). This is just common sense, and god is not needed to tell us this.

  Ponder this: Many of the the things that were ok in the bible and sanctioned by god are not acceptable in todays society, like slavery and genocide. God doesn't get to tell us what is morally right/wrong, when he is the biggest hypocrite, when it comes to violence and hostility. Hostility in creating humans with freewill and demanding that they bow to him or have life withheld; to me that is like saying my child must kiss my feet every morning, or i'll let him starve to death. Sorry that just doesn't work for me, to quote Chris Hitchins "God is not great".
• 

  tec

  I don't suppose we can know that answer

  Of course we can. The whole 'evil from both' thing is not universal, even among christians, and is not older than a couple thousand years for certain. So look at other cultures/times and see how much of a difference there is in how people act.

  crafting laws around the principals of freedom,

  What if freedom is something that is wrong?

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  tootired2care

  What if freedom is something that is wrong?

  I suggest you go and live in North Korea or Iran for a period of no less than 5 years and tell us if you still feel that way
• 

  tootired2care

  Congrats on your 9,000 post btw.