Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong? (page 50)

tootired2care

Heaven doesn't have wars and terrorists

It certainly did in the past according to the bible, and whos to say it won't in the future?

Interesting... question: if that is gods plan, how could Satan offer to Jesus the kingdoms of the world, if they weren't his to give and god was using them to make heaven on earth? And how do you reconcile that position with the scripture below? Or is this a part of the bible you don't believe?

Rev 12:

7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi′cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”

still thinking

Here's an example of a religious charity gone wrong...Salvation Army

"Normally we would be cleaned out at this time but this year it's not the case because we were closed from December 24 and have only reopened on January 26, so our shelves are pretty well stocked."

And the reason he decided to close the food bank? He determined that people were spending money on things they shouldn't and therefore did not deserve the food.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/western-leader/4593941/Foodbanks-hard-line

How he thought He had the right to decide that I do not know, considering everything they give is donated to them. I tell you what, It made people take a long hard look at the sallies that year.

Also, their Bridge programs (drug and alcohol recovery) are almost 100% govt funded here now....who are they working for? God or the Govt?

The courts now use bridge programs as part of their system. Now there are so many coming through the courts that many who actually just want help are being turned away. They have to take the court appointed or lose funding. And the only reason the courts send them there is to keep them out of jail. They have a very low success rate now due to the fact that most of the people don't want to be there.

This is an example of a well run charitable service...they are a non religious charity based on The twelve step programe. They recieve funding from the coummunity and our district health boards.

http://www.higherground.org.nz/Home/tabid/305/Default.aspx

They have an extremely high success rate and the place is very well run. The applicants are taken based on their desire to get well...sure some still drop out because they aren't ready. But for the most part...people do well here.

It is not dictated to by the govt or any religion.

And lets not forget AA who are not religious and don't care if you believe in god or not and are completely run by volunteers and funded by the people who use the service. They receive no external donations and their track record is incomparable.

sabastious

Interesting... question: if that is gods plan, how could Satan offer to Jesus the kingdoms of the world, if they weren't his to give and god was using them to make heaven on earth? And how do you reconcile that position with the scripture below? Or is this a part of the bible you don't believe?

The devil in the NT is refered to as the "prince of the world who now stands condemned." Satan, the condemned king, could offer the kingdoms of the world to Jesus because he was still ruler over them, but Jesus knew the offer had no lasting weight because he would eventually be dethroned from power along with any followers just like any king on earth would be if his actions had caused widespread problems and death in his kingdom. The whole Bible is about a king exchange from the Devil to the Christ.

As for Satan being cast down to earth, that's why I didn't say that I know that the heavens never had problems like that of earth. However there is no reason to believe wars in heaven occured where spirit creatures are killed like they are on earth. A war in heaven is not going to be a very tangible thought and requires a war on earth to even logically contemplate the idea.

-Sab

still thinking

There is compelling evidence that Jesus was at least studied up on much more than just Judaism . ..sab

I think you have that the wrong way around...Buddah is older than Christ.

Who studied up on who?

The Buddha lived and taught in the eastern part of Indian subcontinent some time between the 6th and 4th centuries BCE. [

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

nice quotes by the way...maybe that proves Jesus was a disciple of Buddah...LOL

tootired2care

I think all of this worrying about a blessing from god, which god or devil is in control of what, is frankly dangerous and a huge waste of time for a secular society to be concerned with. If you want to believe in this fine, just keep it in your living room, and out of political decisions. This idea, that we would follow Israel down some rabbit hole, on a fools errand against the Muslim world for gods blessing, is just stupid and very dangerous thinking.

It's not gods bliss that enables man to progress over the long haul, it's having freedom, a good education, dillegent hard work, and not worrying about what god thinks or doesn't think. Case in point - ignoring the many atrocities committed in Russia, just look at the many technological achievements they were able to achieve as a godless state. And before you say it I don't believe the fall of their empire had anything to do with god not being on their side, they lost to the better prospect of freedom.

tec

Who is knocking charity programs run by anyone? Not me. I am defending charity programs that are being knocked because they are run by churches or because they are faith-based.

All of these other programs are made up of people of non-faith AND faith. There is no statement either way because it does not matter. Other than one of those atheist volunteer groups from your list, Still... and they make a ridiculous statement on their page right from the get-go, but whatever. If they're helping people, good. I would not think to slam them... because whatever good they are doing, is good that was otherwise going undone. It is the people in need who are important. And that is the same standard that I am holding to the faith-based/inspired charities.

Peace,

tammy

still thinking

Do you think Jesus based his ideas on Buddahs tec?

sabastious

I think you have that the wrong way around...Buddah is older than Christ.

Buddhism is a religion and philosophy indigenous to the Indian subcontinent and encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs, and practices largely based on teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, who is commonly known as the Buddha (meaning "the awakened one" in Sanskrit and Pali ). The Buddha lived and taught in the eastern part of Indian subcontinent some time between the 6th and 4th centuries BCE. He is recognized by Buddhists as an awakened or enlightened teacher who shared his insights to help sentient beings end ignorance (avidya), craving (ta?ha), and suffering (dukkha), by recognizing dependent origination and sunyata , and attain Nirvana.

Jewish history is the history of the Jews, and their religion and culture, as it developed and interacted with other peoples, religions and cultures. Jewish history is over 4000 years long and includes hundreds of different populations.

Judaism is much older than Buddhism, but they definitely were not unaware of each other and likely they exchanged notes every once in a while. My point was not that Jesus was a Buddhist, otherwise he would have just moved to the east and made a name for himself there. My point was that Jesus took into account Buddhism as well as a bunch of other philosophies including, I believe, the Kabbalah which is Jewish mysticism which would be like using a crystal ball today. He sampled all walks of life that he could and came up with a conclusion that he preached. He was not part of any religion and that was by his own design. He was a fisher of men.

-Sab

tec

Do you think Jesus based his ideas on Buddahs tec?

No.

Christ came before Buddha.

"Jesus" came after.

Similarities in religions and in the teachings of wise and/or spiritual men come from universal truths... from the same 'spirit'... and from knowing and understanding love, and peace.

Peace,

tammy

poopsiecakes

There is compelling evidence that Jesus was at least studied up on much more than just Judaism...Sab

Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

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