Blame the designer and not the product: God and the lame Free Will argument (page 9)

That's right, sizemik. You decide to go on a midnight joy ride with your half-drunk dope-smoking buddy and he makes an idiotic decision to play chicken with an oncoming car. There's your time and unforeseen circumstance. You were with the wrong person at the wrong time in the wrong situation. But, still, YOU decided to get in the car with him.

We don't know how far and wide The Butterfly Effect extends, do we?

sizemik

But, still, YOU decided to get in the car with him.

True . . . but what if I'm the guy in the other car?

Unintended consequences are the price of free will . . . so is it really free? Life is determined much more by random events than the "free will" to decide anything . . . including our "choice" of religion. We all want to be winners, not losers, and to credit the rewards to ourselves as a result of conscious choice and free will . . . when nothing could be further from the truth.

Free will is relative . . . and for most it is relatively insignificant.

journey-on

Well, I have to disagree. It's a bit of both. But, I would say free will choices effect us much more than unforeseen circumstances. Most people just have difficulty in tracing back the first-cause action that resulted in the reactive event.

But, as I said earlier, I think Free Will on the wider scale of humanity is what is the issue: Mankind's gift of the puppet strings being snipped.

sabastious

Quick! Tell me this.
You walk into a room in which stand two identical Robots.
One Robot is programmed to always do the right thing at all times because of programming.
The other Robot DECIDES ITSELF to do the right thing at all times on its own.
Tell me how you would know the difference and what difference there would actually be??

One is alive and one is a robot.

-Sab

sizemik

Mankind's gift of the puppet strings being snipped.

If you mean the strings to god . . . then we simply have the same free will as most other mammals . . . just greater intelligence to base decisions on. Many a mammal has used his free will unwisely through lack of intellectual capacity . . . humans are no different in that respect.

What is different about humans . . . is that they exercised their collective free will to make a god concept . . . which imposes on the free will of individuals constantly . . . by attaching puppet strings as you rightly say.

still thinking

How can one be alive if they are both robots Sab?

The only way you could tell the difference is if one was being naughty. And I'm sure his owner would punish him accordingly....keep behaving like that and I'll switch you off.....LOL

AllTimeJeff

Free what?

Where is god again?

You are free to "believe" as you please of course, but at best, free will is a fanciful theory, a concept designed to illustrate a false point that "we" need "god."

Many choose not to acknowledge the obvious "truth", that ALL of us are a product of our environment first, and our decisions second. God has nothing to do with either.

sabastious

It is time to raise the most important question of all: What is it that man's "will" is FREE of? God dictates what mustbe done and man dies if he does not comply. So, FREE FROM what, then?

It could be said that God dictates only certain elements. It could also be said that without that tampering we would not be here to ask whether we were tampered with or not. We are here, that's the huge first fact that is often glossed over. It seems like a no brainer, but it explains everything. IT WORKED! Now lets make it better.

-Sab

sabastious

How can one be alive if they are both robots Sab?

Because it couldn't choose if it was not life. So it's a trick question. There are two robots, one was a robot and is now life, one still is a robot and is not life.

-Sab

Blame the designer and not the product: God and the lame Free Will argument

Share this