Early Civilizations and Bible Chronology

by xelder 109 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cyberjesus

  try a different bible
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  thetrueone

  The evolution of human ignorance is a science.

  The bible is a recognized evidence of that.
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  designs

  Shades- I don't believe in a literal Adam, its an allegory at best.
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  sizemik

  Gobekli Tepe
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  Phizzy

  Shades , are you a Bible Literalist ? I was to a degree for many years as a JW. I eventually came to the conclusion, long before reading on the Net or any books that mentioned it, that the Adam and Eve story was an early Hebrew allegory, and I said as much to anumber of JW's who just sort of nodded in agreement, but would later talk as though it were literal truth.

  Where exactly do you stand ? And as to the Bible chronology, what proof have you got, that stands up to scientific scrutiny, that it is correct ? if you have none, you have to at least accept that the chronology is fiction, or at the very least badly flawed ! even if Adam was real, which cannot be true.
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  Larsinger58

  Because of limitations of radiocarbon-14 dating prior to 1500+ BCE when it starts to get distorted, pre 16th Century BCE chronology is up for grabs as far as science proving anything and linking that to a consistent history. But right now we have good C14 dating for the fall of Jericho by Joshua and for Shishak's invasion which can confirm the Exodus c. 1386 BCE, with a consistent historical parallel between the Bible and secular history via the Neo-Assyrians down into the Persian Period when the Bible's OT history ends during the reign of Darius II.

  Having noted that, I've found an aggressive avoidance of linking the Exodus to Akhenaten, the pharaoh who became a monotheist who we can now confirm appeared at the time of the Exodus, thus linking his monotheism to the 10 plagues. So lying archaeologists and the academic world is always going to be a problem with chronology, because so many are anti-Biblicists. That is, when something does show up in archaeology to agree with the Bible you have aggressive avoidance or dismissal of that evidence.

  So pre Exodus or fall of MBA Jericho can't be dated accurately by C14, but from the fall of MBA Jericho c. 1550 BCE forward we have good scientific evidence from both C14 and archaeology to compare events, along with astrochronology from the earliest known eclipse from Ugarit (KTU 1.78) dating the 12th of Akhenaten to 1375 BCE, then other criticial eclipse references along the way down into the Greco-Persian Period that affect the timeline of both the Bible and secular records. But you do have to wade through some revisionism along the way, something most researchers are incapable of comprehending or unwilling to consider, which is not a problem when you're just looking and comparing.

  In the meantime, challenged or disproven, the Bible literalists like JWs establish a period of just 2513 years from the creation of Adam to the Exodus. The WTS' interpretation of the Biblical timeline has them dating the Exodus in 1513 BCE whereas as archaeology dates the Exodus c. 1386 BCE as does jubilee dating when the 70th jubilee is linked to 1947, the final return of the Jews to their homeland. So this gives a high-low range for the creation of Adam between 4026 BCE (JWs) and 3899 BCE (jubilee/archaeological).

  Critical and credible C14 dating comes from destructive layers where short-lived grains are found and then dated by C14. MBA Jericho and its walls were attacked at the time of the Hyksos expulsion by the Egyptians who fired the outside of the walls, superheataing them so that the interior caught fire. At that time there were fresh grain stores that were burned. A very large amount (several busshels) which offer an incredibly excellent C14 dating sample, dating that destruction c. 1550 BCE. In addition, someone outside the archaeological community recently went to various museums containing Egyhptian artifacts from various tombs, including grain samples which add additional confirmation that at least the Egyptian timeline from the period of Ahmose on is very consisten with the current dating give or take a few years toward earlier dating.

  So, again, as noed, pre MBA dating which is supported by great C14 samples establishes a critical scientific timeline that can be compared to the various Biblical timelines, but prior to that there is no sicence that I've seen that would effectively support or contradict the Bible. Those claiming some civilizations are 10,000 years old are just speculating with no C14 support for such claims. All that can be said is that the Biblical timeline contradicts any pseudo-science or spurious archaeological claims for civilized man prior to 2513 years prior to whenever you are dating the Exodus, thus prior to 4026-3899 BCE.

  So debate away and come to your conclusions about pre-MBA chronology, but after that we have good archaeological and scientific dating available, some of which agrees with some of the Biblical timelines now in place. Basically, critical science and the Bible have good agreement chronologically after the MBA Period, especially during the current dating of the 18th Dynasty, but speculative science and archaeology tend to extend chronology past the Biblical timeline which dates the creation of Adam best c. 3899 BCE. I acknowledge potential discrepancies prior to the MBA period between the Bible and archaeology/archaeologists, but not afterward, that is, not after effective C14 and astronomy dating from the 16th Century BCE now available.

  LS
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  designs

  Damascus- C14 dating of Tell Ramad 6000BC, Barada 9000BC.

  All you have to do is show 1 human existing before Adam and its Allegory time.
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  ShadesofGrey

  Thank you Lars.

  OP if you do a google search for isaac newton egypt's timeline then you may find more information.

  Ancient history is my thing. The Egyptian historian, Manetho, who lived around 300 B.C., compiled a list of Egyptian kings that is the cornerstone of mainstream ancient Egyptian chronological studies. Sir Isaac Newton noted that Manetho reported the same reigns twice under different names, listed kings in the wrong order, corrupted their names, repeated them again and again, and included the names of other great men and women who were only the relations of kings or their viceroys or secretaries of state. Egypt's timeline is an index fossil of sorts. They based the rest of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean history on Egypt's timeline, so it wouldn't be simple to correct it at all. Textbooks and encyclopedias would need to be rewritten, etc. etc. The main problem with the Bible and Egyptian history is that Egyptian history has an incorrect timeline applied to it (as believed by Sir Isaac Newton among others). Once that is corrected then archaeological findings fall into place. The Israelites of the battlefield are depicted on the Karnak wall in the same multicolored garments as are the Canaanites of the three embattled cities. See: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/04/sc...pagewanted=all for more information about archaeological evidence of the Israelites in Egypt and their relation to the Canaanites, who were later called Phoenicians.
  
  One of the histories based on this erroneous Egyptian timeline is that of Ancient Greece. The Greek dark ages supposedly occur during this time. Greek civilization disappears only to reappear centuries later, the pottery and language unchanged, with the history of the Trojan war being written down for the first time supposedly 400 years after the war occurred. It all seems a little fishy to me.

  Referring to dating methods in Cambridge Encyclopedia of Archeology p.424: "systematic discrepencies between dates that were being obtained and those that could be expected from historical evidence. These differences were most marked in the period before about the mid-first millenium BC... Dates for the earliest comparative material available... appear to be as much as 600 years, or about 12 percent too young."
  If this 600 years is removed from Egyptian history (which is used to date all ancient civilizations surrounding the area, such as the Greek dark ages that are actually non-existant), archeological evidence matches up with the history of Israel according to the Bible. This is just one example of many in which secular science and history conceals (perhaps unknowingly) evidence that backs up the Biblical record.
  
  Pharaoh Merneptah of the 19th dynasty wrote on his stele, "Israel is desolate, his seed is no more." This statement makes no sense if he was ruling in the 13th century BCE, as traditional history states. If he ruled in the 8th century BCE then his statment lines up with the conquest of Samaria by the Assyrians and the exile of the 10 tirbes of Israel in 722 BCE.
  
  So the dates logically, should be reduced. There is no reason that dynasties 20 to 23 could not be contemporary with 19 and 24.
  
  Radiocarbon dating should not have been manipulated to agree with the already presumed Egyptian history. Egyptian history should have been shortened to agree with the radiocarbon dating. This would result in Biblical history being vindicated instead of disproved.

  In 1890 Sir Flinders Petrie identified the pyramid of Amenemhet III, which was made of mud bricks mixed with straw. Sounds familiar (Exodus 5:7)
  
  In the city of Kahun where the pyramid builders lived, he found evidence of many Semitic slaves. "It is apparent that the Asiatics were present in the town in some numbers, and this may have reflected the situation elsewhere in Egypt... There exact homeland in Syria or Palestine cannot be determined... The reason for their presence in Egypt remains unclear."
  
  "It is apparent that the completion of the king's pyramid was not the reason why Kahun's inhabitants eventually deserted the town, abandoning their toolds and other possessions in the shops and houses."
  
  "There are different opinions of how this first period of occupation at Kahun drew to a close... The quantity, range, and type of articles of everyday use which were left behind in the houses may indeed suggest that the departure was sudden and unpremeditated."
  
  Quotes from Dr. Rosalie David, The Pyramid Builders of Ancient Egypt

  The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in southwestern Asia,
  
  Large numbers of slaves that were building a pyramid that included straw made bricks suddenly left. Yeah, no evidence of the Exodus at all.
  Why do these archeologists and historians not find evidence of the Israelites in Egypt? Because they are looking in the wrong time.
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  ShadesofGrey

  The first solar eclipse ever recorded happened in 2134 B.C. in China, so it appears the “legendary period” in China is not as long as popularly imagined.
  
  There are kings list of ancient Sumer for before and after the flood and they match up to the Biblical account of the patriarchs.
  
  The ancient Babylonians are said to have begun building their impressive structures about 3000 B.C. However, a king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, (who ruled about 500 B.C.) wrote on a plaque that was discovered at the ruins of an ancient tower, that he (Nebuchadnezzar) had refurbished this tower which originally was nearly completed by the first king of Babylon, but could not be completed because the builders could no longer understand one another’s spoken words. Nebuchadnezzar further inscripted on the plaque (about 500 BC) that this first king ruled 42 generations before. Here an ancient king of Babylon stated that Babylon began about 2200 B.C.!
  
  Astronomical records, obtained by Alexander the Great from the Babylonians, are dated back 1903 years from 331 B.C. The Babylonians told Alexander that Babylon began when the astronomical records began, in 2234 B.C.
  
  When the Saxons began to migrate to Britain from the European mainland about 500 A.D., the native Britains (Welsh) noted the barbarous, pagan savagery of their new neighbors. The Saxons practiced ancestor worship (of Odin and Geat), and had no knowledge of the Bible. The Welsh (which ironically means “barbaric foreigner” in Saxon13) had been evangelized about 300 years before, so the cold-blooded, pagan lifestyle of the Saxons was appalling to the Welsh.
  
  These “savages” brought with them records of their kings going back to their first king, Noah. These, obviously Biblically ignorant Saxons, compiled their king’s list through the centuries, with the Biblical Noah appearing as their first king. There are many kings list in Europe that were written before any conversion to Christianity that start with Noah or Adam.
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  ShadesofGrey

  Here is another good link concerning the OP: http://6000years.org/frame.php?page=noahs_grandsons Look at the Old Earth Why Not? Quotes.