Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled 238 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • flamegrilled
    flamegrilled

    ee - My original reason for posting is just as I put it. I really would like to understand if something else out there fits the bill. I'm active but I prefer not to give a lot of personal detail at this stage. Hope you will understand. I'm not really here to debate doctrine, since I already understand the flaws. I'm just trying to see how people perceive alternative ways of meeting what I believe to be Chrsitian obligations.

    Just hypothetically if someone responded and convincingly demonstrated that it was possible to meet those obligations without the baggage that comes with our current framework then I'd seriously consider a different course.

    That's about the sum of it.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    Hi FG ........It's a quote from an author who has written a book about North Korea. His discription, at least to me, sounded like a discription of the JW'S living under the GB.

    I was pioneering back in the 1960's and after doing some reading........ The True Believer was one of the books I found (which never mentions JW) helped me find my way out. Vietnam was raging and 1975 was being touted as a very serious date. No one ever said I had good timing. But when it's time to get out you just have to go.

    Welcome to the forum

  • flamegrilled
    flamegrilled

    Giordino - thanks. I see your point. Of course you are correct to point out the level of control exercised in the organization. I don't disagree.

  • Hoffnung
    Hoffnung

    Hello Flame,

    You are not the 1st one with this question, nor will you be the last.

    Actually, AGuest is answering your questions quite well, and I would like to encourage you to browse through her many contributions on this site. Even if you might not understand everything, it will enlighten your understanding. I add a few ideas if I may.

    The belief system that Christ started, was not centrally organized. A contextual reading of Acts 15, will show you that it was a group of elders of the local congregation of Antiochia, had problems with the teachings from another local congregation, Jerusalem. To sort matters out, a delegation was sent to Jerusalem, where the 2 groups came to the conclusion to solve it. Nothing more, nothing less. Early christians met in local congregations, they had elders which they choose themselves, and did not have pioneers, circuit overseers or anything like it.

    The early christians did NOT preach from door-to-door. Christ, Paul and others went to open places like synaguoges and market places. The majority of the christians though, did NEVER engage in any formal way of preaching. The great progress was caused by the message going from mouth-to-mouth publicity, informal preaching if you like. This formula still works best, even nowadays.

    The real instructions from Jesus, you find in Matthew 25:34-36:

    34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, YOU who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for YOU from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and YOU gave me something to eat; I got thirsty and YOU gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and YOU received me hospitably; 36 naked, and YOU clothed me. I fell sick and YOU looked after me. I was in prison and YOU came to me.’

    James repeated a similar message in James 1:27: The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world. How you give this an actual meaning in your life is entirely up to you.

    One thing is for sure, you cannot do this fully as a Jehovah's Witness. The constant pushing to preach and to engage in other not very valuable activities will keep you away from what really matters. The Society is constantly bashing other churches for their efforts to help other people, instead of preaching, but this is exactly what Jesus commanded us to do.

    If you want to do what the bible says, and you do not want to it on your own, you have to find another group of people that wants to do it too. Whether that is in an existing church or not, is your choice. Most important is that this group of people does not force their dogma and understanding upon you, that you are free to read and understand the bible as it comes to you. This is impossible as long as you are an active Witness. I hope I was able to give you some answers.

    Hoffnung

  • yknot
    yknot

    Flamegrilled....

    You didn't answer 'how and when' 1914 came about ....

    Further how can you find anything else that 'fits the bill' if you can't fully demonstrate knowledge of what you are trying to compare.....

    So I ask again, when did the WTS begin to proclaim 1914 as the 'enthronment' and how was this revelation delivered to the WTS according to the WTS.

    Huggles

  • flamegrilled
    flamegrilled

    hoffnung - thanks. Helpful post.

    yknot - "Further how can you find anything else that 'fits the bill' if you can't fully demonstrate knowledge of what you are trying to compare....."

    I'm not sure why I would need to "compare" on 1914, since I am not looking for that as a criterion of Christianity. As I mentioned I did address the origins (which I am reasonably certain you will be versed on anyway) but I'll copy and paste again from my post above...

    Regarding how and when - it's clearly speculation built up on some adventist theories in the 19th century. IMO whether it's right or wrong doesn't change God's fundamental purpose to have Christ rule as king until all enemies are put under his feet and all things are reconciled to Him.

  • yknot
    yknot

    Flamegrilled,

    Yes, 1914 in Russell's era that is true.

    However as the remaining "Bible Students" often point out...... JWs founder is really Rutherford.

    Within our present structure 1914 is based on Rutherford's intepretations and shufflings.

    And yes if you are a 'spiritual' person then it has merit in comparison to Galatians.

    _______________

    As for as Jah's purpose for Christ to reign as King, well to the best of my knowledge such a belief is held all professing 'Christians'.

    So now I am little lost on how the WTS plays part in that for you as an individual in your walk....

    Thank you for your patience in talking with me about this....

    Huggles

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    I am so happy to see you here Yknot! MISSED YOU!

  • exwhyzee
    exwhyzee

    Hi Flamegrilled: I like the tone of your post and your straight to the point questions. Many have given good answers and they have given me a lot to think about too. However I don't think they are really quite answering the questions you have asked. I'm not sure I could do any better but I do have a few questions for you that when answered , may lead us to a way of answering your original questions better.

    Do you think that it is pleasing to God that 2012 years after his Son's death, people are still reading the Bible, calling themselves Christians and looking to him as a means for salvation? Since we can't be perfect isnt it enough that people are trying?

    Do you think Jesus might have meant his followers or Christians would have love among themselves associated with a single group or toward all those who claimed to be Christian no matter what group they are in ?

    Do you think it is loving when JW's leave literature at peoples houses that bash and condemn them to destruction for being part of a non JW Congregation of Christians they hold dear ?

    Do all the details of the doctrine really matter all that much after all these years especially when there are so many ways for it to be interpreted , so long as they have the big chunks in place ? God the creator, Jesus sacrafice, obey Bible teachings as best as you are able to understand them.

    If the details are critically improtant, what about all the doctrinal changes that were made by the Watchtower Society after claiming they had The Truth and all others were condemned by God?

    Do you think it is possible that God looks at the individuals in each group of Christians and approves of them by their personal behavior rather than because of the group they are associated with ?

    Do you think there is ever a justification for Military action ? In Biblical times, God often had reasons for sending his people to war. He doesn't deal with mankind directly anymore but in your mind, could there ever be a reason for a Christian to take up arms that God might approve of ? I'm thinking of what the world would be like right now had Hitler (for one) not been stopped.

    Why do you suppose JW's spend so much time pointing out the faults and wrongdoings of other religious groups, the people of the world and other non Witness institutions and barely acknowledge, discuss or explain their own failings, rather than simply sticking to the business of teaching interested ones"their" understanding of the Bible and leave it at that ?

  • LV101
    LV101

    What a wonderful surprize --- great you are here, Y-Knot, for any amt. of time possible. Sure wish you were here to do WTS questions/answers (trivia) because I'm waiting to see if my answer to your question to FG is half way right.

    LV101

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