Criminal , new US ally

by Norm 125 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Joseph Joachim

  Has it slipped your collective minds that each and every one of America’s friends across the sea would be speaking German as its native language if America had not taken the actions it has in the past?

  Freeman, I have little to add to Abaddon post; just wanted to remind you that the US didn't enter WWII just to help their European friends but to protect itself after Pearl Harbour, when you realized that you were not invulnerable. Exactly the same thing happened after 9/11. Do you remember the TV series Babylon 5? Well, I think Americans are like the Vorlons. You basically defend your own interests; helping others is just a side effect. This is perfectly legitimate, on the other hand; the problem is that you don't want to admit it.
• 

  Satanus

  Americans don't know that saddam checked with the US before his kuwait invasion. Here is the transcript of saddam and US ambassador glaspie:

  APRIL GLASPIE TRANSCRIPT

  Yes, remember April Glaspie and her amazing stint at Middle East diplomacy?

  I cannot confirm the reliability of the source, a strange website called which I found via a meta-search engine, but here's their scoop on Glaspie and Saddam:

  Saddam-Glaspie meeting

  Transcript of Meeting Between Iraqi President, Saddam Hussein and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie. - July 25, 1990 (Eight days before the August 2, 1990 Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait)

  July 25, 1990 - Presidential Palace - Baghdad

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your threat s against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?

  Saddam Hussein - As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - What solutions would be acceptab le?

  Saddam Hussein - If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)

  On August 2, 1990 four days later, Saddam's massed troops invade and occupy Kuwait. _____

  Baghdad, September 2, 1990, U.S. Embassy

  One month later, British journalists obtain the the above tape and transcript of the Saddam - Glaspie meeting of July 29, 1990. Astoun ded, they confront Ms. Glaspie as she leaves the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.

  Journalist 1 - Are the transcripts (holding them up) correct, Madam Ambassador?(Ambassador Glaspie does not respond)

  Journalist 2 - You knew Saddam was going to invade (Kuwait ) but you didn't warn him not to. You didn't tell him America would defend Kuwait. You told him the opposite - that America was not associated with Kuwait.

  Journalist 1 - You encouraged this aggression - his invasi on. What were you thinking?

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - Obviously, I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take all of Kuwait.

  Journalist 1 - You thought he was just going to take some of it? But, how could you? Saddam told you that, if negotiations failed , he would give up his Iran (Shatt al Arab waterway) goal for the Whole of Iraq, in the shape we wish it to be. You know that includes Kuwait, which the Iraqis have always viewed as an historic part of their country!
  Journalist 1 - American green-lighted the invasion. At a minimum, you admit signaling Saddam that some aggression was okay - that the U.S. would not oppose a grab of the al-Rumeilah oil field, the disputed border strip and the Gulf Islands (including Bubiyan) - the territories claimed by Iraq?

  (Ambassador Glaspie says nothing as a limousine door closed behind her and the car drives off.)

  _____

  To the best of our knowledge, the text on this page may be freely reproduced and distributed. Information last updated on: 02/09/96
• 

  LDH

  The US apparently want him to help them get rid of Saddam Hussein.
  They don't seem to be very upset about the fact that he is a ruthless murderer

  Maybe the fact that he's a ruthless murderer makes him the perfect man for the job!

  Lisa
• 

  freeman

  Sorry to interrupt your America-Bashing-Party a second time but once again I find myself compelled to speak out. Communicating via this medium has its disadvantages; one such disadvantage is not being able to know the age of your audience.

  It’s quite obvious few if any of you were even alive during the period of time I was talking about. How stupid of me not to realize that to you, the significance of the gift America gave to so many European countries and in fact the whole world is relegated to something that you perhaps read in a history book. How could you possibly be expected to have any appreciation, it is after all just some obscure history.

  I apologize for forgetting that you could not possibly comprehend what it was like, standing on the very soil some of you now call home and fighting to preserve your parents and grandparents freedom. You of course inherited that freedom, but that’s water under the bridge as they say.

  Maybe one of you could do me two small favors. Do you think you could?

  Request #1 If by chance your parents or grandparents are still alive, please ask them about the big party they gave us Yanks at the end of the war. And after they tell you about that, please tell them that America will never forget their hospitability and gratefulness, and that is why we will always be there for them and even their snotty little kid’s generations later.

  Request #2 If by chance you happen to come upon some graves of one or more of the thousands and thousands of American solider buried on your soil, please don’t piss on them. Thank you; that’s all I ask.

  PS: I promise I won’t interrupt you America-Bashing-Party again so feel free to continue unabated.

  Freeman
• 

  expatbrit

  Freeman:

  Where do you draw the line between "America-bashing", and legimate criticism of American policies and actions?

  Or do you think there is no such thing as legimate criticism of America?

  Expatbrit
• 

  bboyneko

  Has it slipped your collective minds that each and every one of America’s friends across the sea would be speaking German as its native language if America had not taken the actions it has in the past?

  Has it slipped YOUR mind that America stayed far away from World War II, and only got involved after Pearl harbor got bombed? If they really cared so much about the fate of europe why didn't they get actively involved in the war sooner?

  The US coming in at the last minute to turn the tide of war is not much to brag about, Britian and the other allies had already been fighting for years and held of the Germans and gathered valuable intillegence, without which the US wouldn't have had anything.

  Yes Americans died, but far more europeans died.

  Hey, why are you speaking english now? Oh yeah! Because the US owes it's exsistence to England and it's language. Why aren't you speaking a native american language? Because the United States slaughtered the native people of the land you now live in and forecefully took their land.

  Not something to be proud of. Last time you took a piss in the woods somewhere you may very well have been pissing on the grave of a Nativ American.

  And oh yeah, I am a US Citizen.
• 

  WildHorses

  Norm, do you have a problem with ALL Americans, or just the ones in the government?

  Seems you are always bashing Americans. The government sucks at times but I still love my country. I have been to Mexico and the way they treat their women over there terrible. No freedom. I'll take America any day.

  Lilacs

  I don't want someone in my life I can live with. I want someone in my life I can't live without.
• 

  gambler

  I always find it amusing how some euoropean nations continualy critisize the us military while they relie on the british to protect them.I think the US should pull back from some of its conflicts and let some other nation deal with it.The euopeans should have solved the bosnia problem, it was in your back yard.You should be whineing to the french,british and the russians to help out more but you know they wont becasuse they need to concentrate on themselves, whitch is exactly what the US needs to do.
• 

  freeman

  Hello again, it seems I’m breaking my own promise of not posting on this thread again, but so be it. Through my own ineptness with language skills it seems I have given some of you the wrong impression and I wish to correct that right now. Do you feel that the phrase “America right or wrong” sums up my thinking?

  If you answered in the affirmative, you are quite wrong. I would say I agree with about 80% of the criticism directed toward my country on this thread.

  That said; you should know that we here in America are a bit sensitive these days; some of us believe we are fighting for our very survival. Many of us expect a much more devastating attack then 9-11, possibly quite soon.

  Some have complained about one or more aspects of our new President, and rightfully so as he has and will continue to make mistakes both in foreign and domestic policy. However, I do take exception when I hear personal attacks on our president that portray him as some kind of imbecile. I hear that that quite a bit both from our friends across the sea and here in the USA. Everyone is certainly entitled to you own opinions but for myself, I have a hard time not giving him some amount of credit for the leadership he has shown thus far.

  Not that it matters to many of you but the man is college educated, holds multiple degrees from both Yale and Harvard, is a self made millionaire, and had the foresight to surround himself with brilliant people, all experts in their respective fields. Not bad going for an idiot, wouldn’t you say?

  Then there is the assertion that America only gets involved when it is in our interest or when we were attacked, such as during World War II. How little some seem to know about this period of history.

  I wish I could change that, and I have a few suggestions that might help:

  Read more books, watch some videos, get more educated or ask someone that lived through it.

  Learn about lend-lease.

  Learn about the millions and millions of dollars America pumped into Europe LONG BEFORE Pearl Harbor, long before we ever declared war.

  Learn about our soldiers that died delivering planes to Europe as your supplies were being depleted.

  Learn about our merchant marines that risked life and limb sneaking ammunition and supplies to you at a time when it was still 100% YOUR WAR.

  Learn about the very risky oil embargo we engaged in so as to choke off supplies to Axis powers to help our friends, knowing full well this bold move could get us into the war. You know the price we paid for that bold move don’t you? It was called Pearl Harbor, just in case you didn’t know.

  We knew all the risky things we were doing on your behalf could lead us into war, YOUR WAR, but we felt that a free Europe was something worth taking that risk for.

  Yes we sure were selfish bustards back then, we wanted a world free from the likes of Hitler and his cheesy mustache, and you know what? We still do. That is why we impose our will on other people, that is why we dispose of Hitler types even now when we feel we must. We are a good hearted people, some would say a stupid people. Considering that we could take with force almost anything from any nation on the planet and we don’t, tyrants are baffled. But we are not tyrants and so we don’t.

  Do I expect Europeans to fall down at our feet because of what we have done for them in the past AND WHAT WE CONTINUE TO DO FOR THEM even now? No. That would be out of character. We want you to disagree with us from time to time, we want you to be free and remain free to do just that. If we overstep our bounds, feel free to call us on the carpet.

  One last final thing and I say this without apology or hesitation to anyone: To those and ONLY those persons FOREIGN or DOMESTIC that would spit on the sacrifices made by this country so you can live in freedom; FUCK YOU!

  To all others: Good day

  Freeman
• 

  TR

  Freeman,

  You're the man.

  TR

  I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way.
  --Robert Frost, 1935