Criminal , new US ally

by Norm 125 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Focus

  bigboi wrote:

  I think it's ludicrous to try to put some blame on the US for not coming into the war sooner.

  No, it is not ludicrous at all. While I had already stated that Britain and France and others should have acted earlier than they did, AT LEAST THEY (FINALLY) ACTED before being attacked. The Great US, meanwhile, cowered behind its Pacific and Atlantic trenches, battened down its hatches, and deluded itself in the way that you are deluding yourself now, "bigboi". See *** below.

  Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in 1923-4, and the book was widely published. When Adolf came to supreme power in Germany at the start of the 1930s, and promptly started implementing his murderous power fantasies, ALL ADVANCED NATIONS bear collective bloodguilt for not having the wit and the guts to oppose him and stop him... and that certainly includes the US.

  Here are some gems from Mein Kampf:
  "it by no means believes in an equality of races, but along with their difference it recognizes their higher or lesser value and feels itself obligated to promote the victory of the better and stronger, and demand the subordination of the inferior and weaker in accordance with the eternal will that dominates this universe.. All the human culture, all the results of art, science, and technology that we see before us today, are almost exclusively the creative product of the Aryan.. Hence it is no accident that the first cultures arose in places where the Aryan, in his encounters with lower peoples, subjugated them and bent them to his will. They then became the first technical instrument in the service of a developing culture. The mightiest counterpart to the Aryan is represented by the Jew." "

  Those revelations were clearly then his blueprint for Germany's future. This warning to the world was largely ignored.

  Why not let the Euros slug it out amongst themselves and then come in for a relatively easy cleanup?

  *** TRUE BRAYING IDIOCY!

  Hitler, had he won in Europe and Russia, would then have marshalled all the forces of industrialized Europe - AND SMASHED THE U.S. Slave labor for factories is effective. Natural resources aplenty.

  Besides it wasn't the US that had mired the World in it's mercantilist policies for the previous 300 yrs.

  A safe pronouncement and strawman, as the US had not existed for the previous 300 or even 200 years AT ALL!

  I come not to defend the evils of imperialist, mercantilist Europe, which I could not in conscience wish to do at all, but to expose the infantilism and hypocrisy of the World's only Superpower.. Big Babies and Boys lose focus and start throwing their toys at phantoms when they are caught out.

  bigboi

  Appropriate handle, that!

  --
  Focus
  (Loving kindness Class)
• 

  Focus

  gambler wrote:

  I dont care how the us veiws china [..] The statement that the US has created more commies and terorists is ridiculous.I will admit the US has shared in its share of terorist building but comunists,please.Yeah , we created the soviet union and the billion plus chinese were all born over here in the US and we shiped them over to asia and founded the republic of china.I am sorry your majesty focus if I, a lowly peasent sound unworthy to his king.But I desepertly need your all wise and all knowing aproval.

  No, of course you would not care how the U.S. views, treats and supports China. I quite understand, and so do the majority of other readers.

  Your material is so full of holes it is hard to perceive any fabric at all. But I'll try.

  Now, communism simply does not work. For homo sapiens sapiens, at least. It just needs to be ignored. It will destroy itself naturally.

  Your assumption that all - or anything but a SMALL minority - of the occupants of a communist country are "commies" is so stupid it requires no refutation at all!!

  And by backing all varieties of genocidal dictatorships and neo-dictatorships around the world simply because they appeared to brown-nose the CIA in the right way, it was but natural that the common man in those unfortunate countries hated and rebelled against the propped-up brutes who oppressed them - and hated those who did the propping-up. A significant number of such victim people exist and existed in the world. And guess who was there to help them rally their JUST and RIGHT causes? Popular leaders and freedom-fighters, who had no option but to turn to the "other side" for funds...

  What else but US stupidity, arrogance and idiocy could make USSR failed-communism appear attractive??

  I stand by my statement. Get an education, sonny.

  --
  Focus
  (Sheeeesh!! Class)
• 

  bigboi

  Well excuuuuse me!

  The sentiments expressed by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf were not far off at all from many sentments shared by a great proprtion of Aryan ppl both in Europe and even the United States at the time it was first published. As a matter of fact, around this time the US Congress had voted to sharply curtail immigration to the US from certain areas of the world largely to stop what they saw as a thinning of the American gene pool by certain undesirable races of men.

  At the time France and Britain were the greatest nations in the world, with far-reaching colonial empires. The events up to Pearl Harbor were in fact a primarily Euorpean conflict. America didn't have the influence or the power it has now back then. Also we like most of the world were in the grips of the Great Depression and most Americans favored the isolationist olicy of the government at the time. Hell, I guess if all had been crying for war then we would be called warmongers and the like.

  Hitler, had he won in Europe and Russia, would then have marshalled all the forces of industrialized Europe - AND SMASHED THE U.S. Slave labor for factories is effective. Natural resources aplenty.

  IMO, at most it would have resulted in a draw. There is no way Hitler could have defeated the US and held such an unwilling empire together. The last person that tried such a thing was Napolean. He was ten times the leader that Hitler was and even he couldn't hold all of Europe together.

  You say my analysis of the situation bakk then is idiocy? Well, it is quite possible that someone in American Government felt that way. World domination was the prize in this thing after all. IMO, that's the way things turned out. The US entered the European theater with alomost all other armies in retreat and Germany struggling to fight a war on two fronts. I don't think that those circumstances came about entirely by chance.

  I come not to defend the evils of imperialist, mercantilist Europe, which I could not in conscience wish to do at all, but to expose the infantilism and hypocrisy of the World's only Superpower.

  No u are not defending the evils of mercantilist Europe, nor did I say or meant to imply that u were. Yet, many Europeans today criticize the US for engaging in tactics that they of all humans alive today should at least understand. In foregn policy it is sometimes neccessary to make agreements with less than desirable individuals in order to accomplish a certain goal. Europe did this for centuries with little or no regard for who got in their way. At least the US has some concern for it's enemies, which is more than the Europeans can say for their former governments.

  ONE....

  bigboi
• 

  Focus

  bigboi wrote:

  At the time France and Britain were the greatest nations in the world, with far-reaching colonial empires.

  Arrant nonsense..

  The US had surpassed France economically by 1890 and Britain by about 1905. Militarily it surpassed both combined, before the end of The Great War (1918-9).

  You can even find most of this in old issues of Zion's Watchtower, tucked in between the wheat bushel statistics...

  And by the early 1930s the States was FAR, FAR AHEAD. Let alone by the late 1930s.

  Please, do some research. You cannot expect your conclusions to often be correct if you feed your brain with garbage or guesswork. GIGO.

  IMO, at most it would have resulted in a draw. There is no way Hitler could have defeated the US

  Hahahaha!!!!

  Virtually the whole world, with Hitler supplied with eager volunteers aplenty, and in possession of technology to deliver missiles over long distances, and with a ruthless will and ideology to suppress dissidents and protest versus just the U.S., and it would be just a draw....
  Sorry, you are just TOO FUNNY!

  The US entered the European theater with alomost all other armies in retreat and Germany struggling to fight a war on two fronts.

  Wow! Such devastating logic!

  If before the US entered the war pretty much everyone was in retreat - WHO THE HELL WERE THEY RETREATING FROM???

  Jehovah??? The Watchtower???? Bigboys?????

  Jeeez.

  --
  Focus
  (ROTFL! Class)
• 

  larc

  Focus,

  I certainly didn't mean to imply that the ruthless behaviour of the native Americans amongst their own tribes was justication for our destroying them as a people. I was attempting to show the universal nature of this phenomena.

  You mentioned the examples in the Bible. The story of Joshua is not much different than the story of North America, and our concept of Minifest Destiny. The only difference is that Joshua was more efficient at it. In the "promised land" he and his army killed every man, woman, and child in hundreds of towns. It took him seven years, but hey, he had stretch goals. If you want to read my satire of Joshua, it is found in a thread, "Our Suday School Lesson," It is easy to find via search because I mispelled Sunday as Suday.
• 

  bigboi

  *SIGH*

  Thanks for missing my point totally, Focus. No doubt Germany kicked ass in WWII. I wasn't refuting that when I mentioned the embarassment the lunatic laid on Europe. I was referring to what I thought may have been the scenario some higher-ups in Amercian government may have been looking for. Believe it or not it made it a lot easier for the US. We had a worn victor who could not possibly keep up it's pace and retreating countries who would be most cooperative in helping us in our efforts. Not all that bad a scenario when u think about it.

  The US had surpassed France economically by 1890 and Britain by about 1905. Militarily it surpassed both combined, before the end of The Great War (1918-9).

  What does that mean? Depending on what data you go by less than 10 yrs ago Japan was the wealthiest nation in the world. Nations in Asia have economies that were once growing double the percentage rate of any Western nation. The military info you alluded is just as open to scrutiny. Being that the militaries of Britain and France were devastated duting the Great War I would guess that America's prowess would surpass theirs at some point during a war they entered into at a later date. Besides what makes a nation great is not only it's hard power but it's soft power. The colonial powers of Europe had no equal in such at that time.

  And by the early 1930s the States was FAR, FAR AHEAD. Let alone by the late 1930s.

  Ever heard of the Great Depression? Also, how was a country devasted by war like Germany able to go from total collapse to the pinnacle of military might in just a relatively few yrs? Europe was no backwood in the early 20th century and u know that. America wasn't operating anywhere near it's capacity at that time.

  Virtually the whole world, with Hitler supplied with eager volunteers aplenty, and in possession of technology to deliver missiles over long distances, versus the U.S., and it would be just a draw....

  Come now, good friend. Certainly a country as "FAR, FAR AHEAD" as the US could have fended off Hitler and his goons. Right?

  ONE....

  bigboi
• 

  gambler

  Im sorry that I dont take YOUR opinion and baseless conjecture as fact focus.By the way what contry do you hail from, you still have not answered that.I am from the US as you might have figured by my saying commie, but that is only because I am to lazy to spell it out.
• 

  Focus

  bigboi wrote:

  *SIGH*
  Thanks for missing my point totally, Focus.

  I generally miss nothing. I very rarely miss points.

  We had a worn victor who could not possibly keep up it's pace

  There may have been a period of consolidation, regrouping and RE-EDUCATION (to ensure there was a large number of acceptable recruits).

  No doubt the US would have been frantically beefing up armaments at the time.

  BUT, PRIOR TO STAR WARS AND ICBMs, ONE COUNTRY (Canada included) COULD NOT POSSIBLY WITHSTAND THE REST OF THE WORLD.

  Pray, what part of this do you find hard to comprehend?

  And before pursuing more Invulnerability Myths, do pause and recall that a few hundred thousand, half-starved looking Viet Cong delivered the U.S. military a massive blow from which it is still attempting to recover psychologically (and which may be a partial cause of the excessive knee-jerkism observed in recent decades).

  Depending on what data you go by less than 10 yrs ago Japan was the wealthiest nation in the world.

  More utter nonsense. I challenge you to produce data that at any time since reliable records began Japan was the wealthiest nation in the world!

  Please, you are digging yourself in deeper and deeper.

  Nations in Asia have economies that were once growing double the percentage rate of any Western nation.

  Aem. Growth rate is not a measure of wealth. Wealth is a measure of wealth.

  Ever heard of the Great Depression?

  hahaha!

  The Great Depression hit mercantile Europe as badly as it hit the US, and is a complete red herring here.

  Again - you do not know enough to argue with me. That is not an insult. I am unable to assess how intelligent you are as your reasoning is based on extremely faulty "data".

  quote:
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Virtually the whole world, with Hitler supplied with eager volunteers aplenty, and in possession of technology to deliver missiles over long distances, versus the U.S., and it would be just a draw....
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Come now, good friend. Certainly a country as "FAR, FAR AHEAD" as the US could have fended off Hitler and his goons. Right?

  *SIGH*

  Being far, far ahead of France or England is a FAR CRY from being anywhere ahead of a WORLD (bar the U.S.) and its resources controlled by the Nazis...

  You actually missed your own best defense - that the Nazis and Imperial Japan would have started quarrelling when their conquests caused them to meet up geographically, and before the U.S. was served up on the menu. While Hitler managed to confuse Nordics with Aryans (an idiocy perpetuated by many other racist fools), he could hardly have classified the Japanese as part of this privileged group.

  Go back, please, and re-read the thread from the start. Do you really have an argument with me??

  Even if you are right, the prospect of a DRAW with Hitler controlling the rest of the world is a prospect that most right-thinking Americans - HAD THEIR RULERS AND MEDIA SUPPLIUED THEM WITH THE TRUTH - would have found abhorrent and intolerable and worth entering a war for. But the US made the blunder of assuming the impending conflict (noew called WW2) was just a re-run of WW1, which was a wholly unnecessary family squabble among the pampered royal houses of Europe.
  WW2 was utterly different. It was a war that should have been prevented, but when it was too late for that, HAD TO BE FOUGHT.

  With malice towards none...

  --
  Focus
  (Demons Infest Earth's Atmosphere! Class)
• 

  gambler

  I am not one of the flag waving duds that think the US is utopia.I do think we have done many horrible things and our government has some coruption in it, but who dose not.The world needs a scapegoat and a fallguy and america has been elected.If a country is poor and in dire straights ,blame the US.Instead of people in that country trying to change their lot in life, blame the US, hope for aid, and rely on other contries to bail you out, militarily and ecomomicly.Sure the US has had a role in helping to cause some of the problems,but the countries and their people bear most of their own fate.It is always easier to blame others than to try to slove your problems.
• 

  Julie

  Greetings to you all,

  Norm, good post, as usual. LDH--I gotta say, that line about that brutal murderer being the guy for the job of eliminating Hussein, brilliant and witty. Good one. It is a shame though that America has no standards when it comes to convenient alliances.

  I think it was TR that said:

  :Oh, and don't forget the oil rich countries we're allied with! Damn, I wish we could drill in Alaska.

  You mean like Russia and Norway?? LOL! Drill in Alaska? Why stop there, let's do some slant drilling the in the great lakes too? We could take over Afghanistan ourselves and build one might convenient pipe-lilne so we could continue to consume the most natural resources of any nation on Earth? If you are going to think Earth Exploitation TR, think big man, think big!! Don't worry, you'll probably be dead by the time the serious reprecussions hit so our grandchildren on down can deal with that, tough shit for them, eh?

  Seeker, brilliant comments. Color me stunned.

  Regards to all,
  Julie, who would like to see big funding reduction to Israel

  [Edited to add: Focus, *I* don't find you to be fearsome, I think you make some excellent points, just an FYI. ]