Are YOU a Believer, Atheist, Agnostic, Active JW or WHAT?

by Greybeard 82 Replies latest jw friends

  • cofty

    So far not a single miracle claim that didn't have a rational explanation that was more parsimonious than the alternative.

    If you don't value evidence then what evidence can I bring to convince you otherwise? You have excluded yourself from the rational world. That's your problem not mine.

    Let's not have yet another mind-numbing argument about the tyranny of facts.

    Back to the topic I think.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I don't know how to answer. My parents, grandparents, greatgrandparents, etc. were all Bible Students and JWs. My father and uncles were at Bethel until late marriages. I received a more nuanced message at home than most Witnesses. Yes, you better behave. God's law. He was spiteful yet they also taught us not to trust any men, esp. Bethelites. Jesus was head of the church, not Rutherford or Knorr. The Bethel crowd were useful in disputes. We were aloof from the KH.

    I always hated it. The boredom for a child is unbearable. My RC neighbor kids taught me about Jesus at the playground. The nuns were mean but the Catholic Jesus sounded better than the JW one. I always did well at school. My parents let me move ahead. My father was abusive and suddenly decided to pull me out of high school. I made an appt to see the principal to go to a foster home to finsih high school and college. My father died. I refused to go to one more meeting. They had to call the Newark police and have the police take me to KH. No more KH.

    I start college. To balance my course load, I take a class on the New Testament by a very young professor. We must read the Bible in consecutive verses plus the assigned secondary material. I do the assignment. No more fear of Witnesses. <u academic Christian work is so exciting that I want to go to seminary. The problem is I must learn Koine Greek while struggling with basic French. I decide law school might be better.

    I graduate law school and practice. Over the course of time, I become Anglican but a very nuanced Anglican. It is hard to figure out their doctrine b/c they don't believe in doctrine so much. It blows my mind. The priests and I laugh about how it fries my mind. I become ill. The bishop agrees that I would make a fine canonical lawyer so he intercedes so I can audit seminary classes.

    I am heavily influenced by Jewish thought. Let us face it. I am a New Yorker stereotype. It appears I have no beliefs that are not adopted by all New Yorkers. I travel the Bethel line subway train so I spot Bethelites and flirt with them. Too afraid of other men to flirt.

    My prof won a MacArthur Award. She now teaches at Princeton and write academic and popular works on the NT. Her latest book was hyped on NPR a few months ago. I should write her a short note telling her how important reading consecutive verses was to my life.

  • Seraphim23

    Talking of facts Cofty, SBF still made a valid point when he said “Isn't the very definition of a miracle something that defies current scientific explanation? Therefore stating that there are no scientifically proven miracles is an assumption about how the world works that is masquerading as a conclusion…..”

    Thus miracle claims have not been proved to be scientific claims at all.

  • slimboyfat

    Cofty you are claiming that there is nothing outside of rationality but insisting that rationality is the only legitimate tool we are allowed to use to evaluate the claim in the first place. Don't you understand the problem with that? That it involves circular reasoning?

    It's like claiming drawings by their very nature can only ever include the colours blue and green, handing me a blue pencil and a green pencil, and telling me to try to make a drawing contradicting your claim using nothing but two pencils you gave me.

  • cofty

    No it wasn't a valid point. If you want to start a new thread I will be happy to explain.

  • Seraphim23

    Yes it was a valid point as SBF has just reiterated.

  • cofty

    No it wasn't but please stop hijacking this interesting thread. Start a new one if you want to discuss it.

  • Seraphim23

    I believe it was you who did that Cofty.

  • RayPublisher

    I think it's interesting that the one that started this thread is now going back to all the JW meetings and trying to get reinstated...

  • DJS

    I can understand going back to the JWs if you have family; otherwise, I think it insane. Hedging your bets in case they are right and you want to survive the big A? I'm embarrased. Humans have so much more potential.

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