Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff 161 Replies latest jw friends

  • Twitch

    @ Designs - I think the fact that your question has been consistently avoided and given the seemingly objective opinions on JW/xJW mindsets, the answer seems fairly obvious; Sulla was never a JW.

  • designs


    Sulla will respond with some metaphysical essay on what is a Question, how can we really know the meaning of What

  • Sulla

    I did not come back to answer your question, designs. But I was raised as a JW.

  • AllTimeJeff

    First of all, I want to apologize to Sulla on a couple of items.

    Sulla is a he, as this thread shows. Also, Sulla clearly has a JW past.

    I genuinely didn't know how to refer to you Sulla. Sorry bout that. I didn't look you up, I wanted to just get it from your mouth is all.

    I asked about you being a JW Sulla because of your statements about the intelligence of JW's and former JW's. Btw, I still think your generalizations are rather convenient for your own theological leanings and are not particularly fair. Obviously, we are both entitled to our opinions and have made them known in our give and takes.

  • AllTimeJeff

    ATJ, you present a false dilemma for believers such as myself and many others on this board. Most of us don't take these doctrines as the end of what God is, but as a tiny, tiny, tiny, beginning of some sort of insight into what is ultimately ineffable for finite beings.

    This is fine with me. It is one thing to explain your view of god, quite another to insist you understand the nature of god to such a degree that you would feel comfortable insisting on that view to others.

    If that isn't your intention, that is fine. That is certainly my impression though.

    But I must say, in regards to my personal views of what is the correct Trinity teaching, I have to cede the fact that upon reading the Bible, the Trinity does not seem to be its main teaching. Yeah, there are verses that speak to Jesus being God but in order to even attempt to 'prove' the Trinity, one has to cobble a bunch of verses together from disperate writings that may or may not have been intended to be cobbled together like that. The only time the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are mentioned together as being one was in 1 John 5:7-8 and only in a King James Bible for this text did not appear in older manuscripts. Of course, there is also Matthew 28:19 which is cited less often.

    Hi garyneal. Thanks for your honesty. I have meant this and will repeat it again, I respect your right to view and interpret god as you choose, just as I respect Sulla and botchtowersociety's right to do so too.

  • designs

    Well son of a gun you really went to the Dark Side of the Force then...

  • Sulla

    designs, you have no idea...

    Thank you, Jeff. But, to clarify, I don't think I've said ex-JWs suffer from low intelligence. What I have said, and continue to hold, is that

    a) The choice to become a JW is an imperfect signal of

    1) intellectual laziness and

    2) arrogance.

    b) Moreover, the decision to leave the JWs is not a strong signal that one is neither intellectually lazy nor arrogant. I think we see this displayed in various ways, most clearly on questions like atheism and some orthodox Christian teachings where I perceive JW-like traits among ex-JWs. Though, to be fair, the JW religion is damn near atheist and hostile to the Christian message to begin with, so those elements should also be considered.

  • designs

    Ah, Catholic arrogance...

  • PSacramento

    Which Catholic arrogance is that?

    Roman Catholic? Old Catholic? Liberal Catholic?

    Or did you not know that the term "catholic" means "universal" and is not applied ONLY to the RCC ?

  • tec

    Sulla, some (many, I believe) are drawn to the JW's at their door because of the message of unity, lack of war, and lack of hell doctrine. They're searching for truth, understanding that these things cannot BE, and then here comes a group that has none of these things. I guess I just have to disagree with why you think most people join the JW's. I think the reasons you state 'intellectual laziness and arrogance', do happen... but in the minority. People don't have to research every christian sect to see the hypocrisy of christian fighting/killing christian. Or to see leaders 'beating' their followers. They see it, think 'this' can't be the truth, and search for somewhere else that can be the truth.

    For the record, though it took me some time, I realize that CHRIST is the Truth. No religious group. But for people who are taught that the truth is held by some religion or another, then they search for that group in order to find the truth.

    You see a lot of good when you're studying to become a JW. Not much bad at all, if any. That comes later. If you were raised as one, then you might not know the outsider perspective.



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