WE CAN DO THIS....if you think the idea is as good as I do!

by Terry 62 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    Great idea. Here are my suggestions:



  • Mickey mouse
  • Terry

    But, can't use this one:


    Ya it`s a good Idea..

    Nathan Knorr is a chubby little bastard..Doesn`t look like he missed a meal..


  • wannabefree

    There was a magazine that in the original print said something about the end coming before the end of the century and then in the bound volumes it was changed ... or something on that order. Is there a scan available of each. Not that its a big deal, but how do you know the info in the Watchtower Library CD is the same as the original publication?

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    Terry, I think that the core of your idea is absolutely brilliant, as it bypasses the 'don't open apostate literature' order from the FDS. But can I please make a suggestion? .. I wouldn't use the oath of allegiance, seriously. The jw will likely be suspicious that it's faked and disregard/tear up the rest, and then it's Mission Failed. And that's besides the fact that some apologists will argue that they only swore to defend and have allegiance to the CONSTITUTION, not to any government. I'm sorry to say that, when you really do some research, there are actually clauses within this particular oath to allow religious people to just swear allegiance to the constitution, as in obeying it , but still let the person have their full and unlimited loyalty to God, not to the government.. And another clause that allows people who won't defend the constitution militarily to do so by merely upholding and promoting its principles.. Unless I've just been taken in by it all, but my point is that it's not going to be a sure-fire success if even an 'apostate' like me is unsure... "There would be no objection to his taking an oath to ‘uphold or defend’ the provisions of the law that do not stand in opposition to God’s law....Thus the Constitution of the United States, as well as that of many other nations, guarantees freedom of religion. It is understood, then, that a Christian is not going to berequired to do anything contrary to his religious beliefs and his obligations to God."-The Watchtower , January 15, 1973, p.63. ..The memo states: "Pledging that one will"support...the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic,"...does not burden the religious exercise of persons who object to subordinating their allegiance to God to their allegiance to a temporal power. This phrase saysnothing of one's relationship to God and lists only temporal enemies. Instead, the "support" phrase requires only that a person abide by the nation's constitutional system of government and its laws." -Page 9, paragraphs 2 and 3. Regarding "defend", the memo further states: "Pledging that one will defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic,"...does not burden the religious exercise of persons who object to resorting to arms. It makes no mention of arms or war. Rather, the phrase is the mirror of the pledge to"support" the Constitution: One promises not only to "support" the Constitution generally, but also-in a manner not specified-to oppose those who do not"support" it. "Support and defend," used together, are effectively a unitary phrase." -Page9, paragraph 4. The aforementioned memo continues: "Pledging that one will bear "truefaith and allegiance to" the Constitution does not burden theexercise of religion of persons who object to subordinating their allegiance to God to their allegiance of the United States....Properly understood it simply reinforces the immediatelypreceding "support and defend" clause, by requiring that one pledge an honest and faithful commitment to the Constitution as opposed to other temporal powers-not as opposed to God." -Page 10, paragraph 3. Italics theirs. Clearly, whatever 'allegiance' is here given to the United States is clearly acknowledged as being subordinate to allegiance to God. But what about that Watchtower statement? 'Allegiance' is defined as "the fidelity owed by a subject or citizen to a sovereign or government" and "devotion or loyalty to a person, group, or cause." Despite the stigma the word may have among some Witnesses because of the Pledge of Allegiance, it basically means loyalty, such as to the government. Hence, the argument 'Witnesses say they give their only allegianceto God's Kingdom, and Witnessesgave allegiance to worldly governments, therefore Witnesses are hypocrites' contains an equivocation fallacy involving the word 'allegiance'. How? Remember, allegiance means loyalty, and Marvin Shilmeragrees . Loyalty, that is, allegiance, can be both limited and unlimited. Hence, when Jehovah'sWitnesses say that they give theirallegiance only to Jehovah God and his kingdom, it is speaking of their unlimited allegiance. Keepin mind what the 1964 Watchtower said, as quoted earlier: "Because Christians can be loyal both to God and to earthly governments they can take oathsof allegiance to defend the Constitution..." (Emphasis added.) An excellent example in this regard is the marriage vow. In a marriage vow, you pledge loyalty, or allegiance, to your mate. Nevertheless, a wife can be disloyal to her husband if he asksher to break a command of God. Why? Because her allegiance is limited . And, in this vein, Marvin Shilmer has once again agreed that "the nature of any specific loyalty is determined by whateverloyalty is promised or asked for and given." Hence, there are varying ways to pledge allegiance to a country." http://stayawake-standfirm.blogspot.com/2010/08/jehovahs-witnesses-and-oath-of.html

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    Hope these help--"If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now; But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. ? "New Light" never extinguishes older "light" but adds to it?" Zion's Watch Tower 1881 February pp.3, 188 Evil as these Gentile governments have been, they were permitted or "ordained of God" for a wise purpose. (Rom. 13:1) Studies In the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages p.250 "The Superior Authorities are the Most High God Jehovah and his exalted Son Jesus Christ." This Means Everlasting Life (1950) p.197 "The Expression "superior authorities" means the political governments or authorities." Lifeeverlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God (1966) p.189 Sodom and Gomorrah Resurrected "Let me give you an illustration that will be forcible: The Sodomites. Surely if we find their restitution mentioned you will besatisfied. But why should they not have an opportunity to obtain eternal life as well as you or the Jew? They were not wicked in the proper sense, for they did not have law or much knowledge. True, they were not righteous, but neither were you when God gave you your opportunity. Christ's own words shall tell us that they are not as guilty in His sight as the Jews, who had more knowledge: "Woe unto thee Capernium, for if the mighty works which have been done in thee had been done in Sodom it would have remained unto this day." Thus Christ's own words teach us that they had nothad their full opportunity."Remember," Christ says of the Sodomites, that "God rained down fire and destroyed them all." So, if their restoration is spoken of, it implies their resurrection." Watchtower 1879 Jul 1 p.8 "Thus our Lord teaches that the Sodomites did not have a full opportunity; and he guarantees them such opportunity." Studies in the Scriptures, Series I p.110 This shows us clearly that the eternal fate of the Sodomites is not sealed. When we turn to the Word of the Lord through Ezekiel the Prophet, 16:46-63, we have abundant testimony that the Sodomites will not only be awakened from the sleep of death, but when awakened will be brought to a knowledge of God and to an opportunity of obtaining everlasting life, through The Messiah, by willing obedience. Watchtower 1913 Feb1 p.45 "The Scriptures distinctly tell us that the Israelites and the Sodomites will be sharers in that work of restoration, restitution." Watchtower 1920 Oct 15 p.316 Not Resurrected "Sodom and Gomorrah were reduced to complete desolation, from which there is no possibilityof recovery; and so likewise the modern Moabites, Ammonites and Edomites shall be destroyed, and the place where they have inhabited shall be, as prophesied,"even the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation." The religious-totalitarian rule and rulers,the commercial robbers and those who have defied Jehovah God and his Theocracy, shall perish for ever at the battle of Armageddon, as the prophecy declares." Watchtower 1941 p.367 "He was pin-pointing the utter impossibility of ransom for unbelievers or those willfully wicked, because Sodom and Gomorrah were irrevocably condemned and destroyed, beyond any possible recovery." Watchtower 1954 February 1 p.85 Resurrected Again "As in the case of Tyre and Sidon, Jesus showed that Sodom, bad asit was, had not got to the state ofbeing unable to repent ... So the spiritual recovery of the dead people of Sodom is not hopeless" Watchtower 1965 March 1 p.139 Not Resurrected "How will these, having been caught, be disposed of? Will they be preserved alive? Will they be killed and buried in Hades or Sheol, which is the common grave of dead mankind, from which resurrection is possible? No, these political organizations are slated to be “hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur.” This the Bible describesas the “second death.” (Rev. 20:14) It means the death from which there is no resurrection. They will be burned up root and branch, as completely gone forever as the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, which Jehovah God burned up by a rain of fire and sulphur from heaven, never to be rebuilt. It is destruction in Gehenna in which God destroys both body and soul (any right or possibility of living)." Watchtower 1967 Jul 1 p.409 Resurrected Again "Moreover, God’s undeserved kindness and care are so great that he will bring back the peopleof Sodom by a resurrection, with opportunity to learn and turn around to the way of life, even ashis Son stated." Awake 1974 Oct 8 p.20 http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/resurrection.php

  • DagothUr

    The Steiman family from the 1914 leaflet is not dead???

  • sabastious

    OMG paragraphs, Quiet One, paragraphs!


  • clarity

    I'm nuts about your idea .... first we have to figure out where our market would be and then how we could get the info into their hands!


    Here is a bit about education Watchtower June 15 2011:


    A Christian has a Scriptural obligation to care for his family, and that includes providing for their material needs. (1 Tim. 5:8) Still, does this really require a college or a university degree ?


    It would be good to consider what effect pursuing higher education could have on one’s relationship with Jehovah. Let us illustrate this by considering a Scriptural example.

    Baruch was the secretary to the prophet Jeremiah. At one point, rather than focusing on the privileges he had in serving Jehovah, Baruch became ambitious. Jehovah noticed this and through Jeremiah warned him: “You keep seeking great things for yourself. Do not keep on seeking.”—Jer. 45:5.

    What were the “great things” that Baruch kept seeking? He may have been tempted to make a name for himself in the Jewish system of things. Or the great things could have been material prosperity . In any case, he had lost sight of the more important things, those having spiritual value. (Phil.1:10) Yet, Baruch obviously listened to Jehovah’s warning through Jeremiah and thus gained his soul as a spoil.—Jer. 43:6.

    What can we draw from this account? The counsel Baruch received indicates that something was amiss. He was seeking great things for himself. If you have a means of supporting yourself, do you really need to spend time, money, and effort on further education just to realize personal aspirations or those of your parents or other relatives?

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