Are we really mortal?

by cptkirk 61 Replies latest jw experiences

  • james_woods

    Einstein did not say that.

  • poppers

    i personally would have to say the animal works purely off instinct,

    I agree. My point is that animals are conscious, they have awareness/consciousness, just as humans have awareness/consciousness. Even when driven by instinct an animal is still conscious/aware - so what is consciousness? I'm not talking about intelligence, logic, or instinct, but consciousness itself. And I don't know if it can be argued that the bare raw consciousness of both animals and humans differs in any way because we don't know what it is . You can easily say that some people are more intelligent than others because that's measurable, but how does one measure consciousness if you don't even know what it is? How does one separate consciousness in order to examine it? And the examination itself requires consciousness, so how would that affect the examination?

  • cptkirk

    ya i knew what you were saying poppers. i'ts definitely an argument that can go round and round. it's like accepting the idea that we were created, then asking who created god? (or the concept thereof). you can argue within the parameters, or you can dismiss all the parameters due to insufficient data.

  • poppers

    You see, I think this "consciousness" that is such a mystery is at the heart of the human dilemma. People create ideas in their mind about God and who they are and then build an identity and attachment around those ideas, but those ideas arise within consciousness itself. This begs the question, "who am I if I'm not an idea arising in the mind?" and what is this consciousness that is necessary for those ideas to exist? No matter what an idea is it must rely on consciousness, so what IS it and who am I in relation to that consciousness?

  • AGuest

    We are indeed really mortal, as to our flesh (the physical body and physical beings that we are), dear Cptkirk (peace to you!). Mortality is with reference to that which must breath air, eat physical food, drink physical water, sleep, pee, poop, is subject to sickness, aging... and death. We not "mortal", therefore, as to our "consciousness" (the essence that makes us each a separate, distinct, individual being - the SPIRIT being that we each are).

    As physical beings, we are only able to tap into, use, and monitor our world as to those senses that are physical: sight, touch, taste, sound, smell. Many scientists (if not most), however, recognize that we also possess other senses beyond the usual five. You even often hear folks referring to a "sixth" sense; however, there are more than six: every empirical sense that we have at our disposal has a spiritual counterpart.

    This is usually an easier truth to grasp for women than for men... because our "intuition" is usually more keen and so more accepted. But it really isn't "intuition" but the use of these additional senses that we tap into. For some of us, it's actually very easy and "natural." It is why women are usually beings of more faith than men. I know, I know... some will say that men are more practical, reasonable, less emotional, etc. And that is often true; however, it also often gets in the way of a man... or even a woman... being able to access these other senses. Because such ones limit the POSSIBILITIES... to what APPEARS capable as to the PHYSICAL world. Those who are able to transcend this, however, particularly women, are often labeled as "crazy". Certainly what has been the case for many women in the western world who've said, "I don't KNOW how to explain it, but I just KNOW it" or "know I SAW/HEARD it", over the past several decades.

    While we do not literally have physical eyes in the backs of our heads... we do have ways of "seeing" that is not limited to our eyes. Sometimes, we "see"... with our ears. Or hear... with our eyes. Or smell/taste with our eyes. Etc., etc. But it is not always our physical ears or eyes which are seeing/hearing; sometimes, it is the person we are on the INSIDE. (Note, some DO try to hear... with their physical eyes... and so put faith in what they SEE or do NOT see. Yet, often their eyes are really playing "tricks" on them. Reading is one way that this occurs - people will often tell you that something they read says or does not say something it does not or did).

    Realizing that, in some things, there ARE unlimited possibilities may well have been the reason Eve was able to be deceived: Adham would have been less likely to even ENTERTAIN the possibility that he could be like God... OR that he COULD know good AND bad. Eve, on the other hand, allowed herself to consider it, that perhaps it WAS possible (and it IS a possibility!). When he saw... with his physical eyes... that Eve had in fact NOT died... only then did Adham allow himself to consider it, as well. True, what they both considered was NOT possible... under the circumstances at that time. However, it IS a possible. It has always been and, indeed, it is PROMISED to man. It was just not for them to decide WHEN it that promise was to become a reality.

    I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,


  • cptkirk

    matter can neither be created nor destroyed. we are matter. we can never be destroyed. only redirected. photons are matter.

  • sinis

    I disagree on instinct for animals. Animals are conscious, and they can reason, and they do feel emotions. Just because they cannot communicate with us, or seem to exist on a lesser plane does not mean they are different per se...

  • sinis

    If matter can neither be created or destroyed than it is feasible to believe that humans and or species, ie birth/death are being replaced with the matter from the previous death. If so HOW? If one person dies in the US, but another is born in the UK how is that possible if matter is finite per se?

  • darthfader

    As I posted on another thread

    In my humble opinion, we have existed before and will exist again -- unfortunately, we wont know the difference.

    Given an infinite amount of time, everything is possible. Including our existence...

  • botchtowersociety

    photons are matter.

    Matter has properties that photons do not.

    Mass is a property of matter. Matter also posesses volume (occupies space). Moreover, matter cannot travel at c or faster than c.

    Photons have no mass and are point particles with 0 volume. Photons travel at c, and only c. There is no such thing as a photon "at rest."

    Photons are not matter.

    So no warp speed for you, and arm the photon torpedos.

Share this