Are we really mortal?

by cptkirk 61 Replies latest jw experiences

  • talesin

    Gladiator, hmmm, you sound very certain.

    Dogmatism and skepticism are both, in a sense, absolute philosophies; one is certain of knowing, the other of not knowing. What philosophy should dissipate is certainty, whether of knowledge or ignorance.
    Bertrand Russell



    cptkirk ... think in trillions of quadrillions of years. infinity.

    I would like to but my brain struggles to think more than one year ahead!


    talesin I use terms such as:

    The likelihood of my brain molecules ending up being used to make another brain are remoteSo far I have yet to hear a voice… I am more likely to…

    If you read my post more carefully you will see that my present position is one of doubt that leaves room for change. The Christians on this board have been working on me so all is not lost.

  • losthobbit

    There's a type of bad statistics that's used whenever you only have only one piece of information... it's called a point estimate.

    Here's how it works in this context:

    I am currently alive, therefore chances are that I am normally alive.

    Of course this is bad statistics, because one needs many samples for statistics to be accurate, something which cannot be done, because we are each only one consciousness / soul / point of experience... whatever you want to call it.

    Another way to say this is: I existed after presumably having not existed (before being born), therefore it is possible to exist again (in a different form of course).

    Another way to do a point estimate like this is, to try and calculate the odds of now being a point in time in which you're alive: e.g. 13 billion years / 70 years = presuming you only exist once, the chance that you're currently alive now is 1 in 185,714,285. That means either you're REALLY lucky, or you don't just exist once.

    Nice topic, by the way, Captain... and a VERY important one.

  • talesin

    We come from dust and we return to dust. Even the bible states this. It also states that it is only by belief in Jesus and god’s grace that we can be redeemed and live again. So far I have yet to hear a voice in my head from Allah, Christ or Jehovah convincing me that this it true.

    It would please me to think that that I will live again in some far of galaxy but alas - Beam me up Scotty - only apperas to happen in fiction.

    I read your post very carefully. Still sounds 'certain' and just a teensy-weensy bit sarcastic.

    Don't get your Christians comment, I'm an atheist so I care not.



    This isn't immortality, of course, and many years away...but at least it has the potential to keep some of humankind's brilliant minds around for eternity. It would be cool to get Hawking-like minds up there for all to interact with :P Might be more science fiction than science, but still cool to toss around the idea.

  • Qcmbr

    The universe won't last that long in any form of recognizable matter. It will either collapse , erasing all information it once contained or it may stretch tearing even the very building blocks of matter apart. Whatever happens you or I will not be in it. The closest we get to longevity (on a human scale) is in the passing on of our genetic code but life as we know it is very tenuous. We aren't eternal and thank goodness - we'd go mad long before the end if we had any material , eternal presence (I'll prove it if anyone is interested.)

  • cptkirk

    qcmbr: i'll admit this isn't my area of expertise. but couple things on your post. one: we aren't already mad? two: what is the precedent for any matter becoming un-recognizable matter? and if there is no precedent, where do you come up with this?

  • talesin

    Sorry, Gladiator, I was being picky,,, a little intense today for other reasons.

  • cptkirk

    should of clarified: (i obviously know you can change matter at the atomic level) if that is what you were referring to, i dont see how that precludes anything. i was asking you in regard to matter changing into something not "recognizable", as in something unknown to the periodic table. if you meant the latter than the question remains. if you meant the former, again i dont see how that precludes anything.

    (my overall point in why i believe this is possible is because: are the grains of sand really that numberable? or the stars in the sky? or atoms? to us they are, but does that mean they really are?) that is why i believe this is possible. once infinity is realized, is anything numerable? if matter cannot be created nor destroyed. "although it may be rearranged in space and changed into different types of particles; and that for any chemical process in a closed system, the mass of the reactants must equal the mass of the products." -einstein in quotes...then why would we not be immortal? if a candy bar is immortal, shouldn't we be also? we are more complex than a candy bar but so what? we have infinity for our molecules to reform over and over. when they click into the right configuration, you got consciousness, when they dont, you have nothing. then they are broken down and re-arranged again. and again, and again and again.

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