by plmkrzy 130 Replies latest jw friends
LittleToe
Pretty pictures, but how do you substantiate that in scripture?I keep having to apologize for not having COMPLETED the explanatory text there that goes along with the diagrams that I produced. I already have the full text prepared, but just haven't taken the time needed to upload it. I really do intend to finish it. Did you perhaps miss the clickable in the upper left corner (above the diagrams)?
Further, where's the seventh heaven and cloud nine?
To Jan H.... With respect, your thinking is clear. . Yadirf seems to be saying that "Life" is something concrete that can be moved around . To him it has personality . The next question is.. Can it exist without a body?
Yadirf:
I look forward to reading the text, when you upload it. Would you mind posting here, when you have, so that I will know when this has happened?
JAn,
The follow-up question then is, "was jesus diploid or monoploid"?
carmel
Siddhashunyata,
Thanks. Yes, that is indeed the next question to ask. If life is independent from the human (or animal), is it something God can move around? Can it be stored in heaven or hell? Does it still live, and can it think?
It just demonstrates that by getting rid of the soul/spirit, the WTS has created an afterlife doctrine that is logically self-contradictory.
Yadirf, it doesn't help that you call it a "gift". That is another metaphor. But you indeed seem to argue that "life" is a thing, and then you run counter to offical JW doctrine. After all, we have a gift, we aren't a gift. If life is a gift, and life is soul, then we have a soul, we aren't a soul.
Edited to add:
The follow-up question then is, "was jesus diploid or monoploid"?Haha. A good one indeed. Does God have chromosomes anyway?
- Jan
--
- "How do you write women so well?" - "I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability." (Jack Nicholson in "As Good as it Gets")
Here's how I answer JW critics in the Yahoo chat room.
JWs believe that Jesus Christ fills the _office_ and _function_ of "Michael the Archangel."
I know of only one Watchtower reference which refers to the prehuman Christ as an "angel."
What many people fail to recognize is that JWs believe that Jesus was God's first creation, and the only creation by God himself, personally. Jesus was the prehuman LOGOS that was the agent of creation of all [other] angels, and other forms of life. That makes him special. I hate it when born-agains say, "You JWs say that Jesus is a MERE ANGEL."
JWs also do not believe that Jesus retained any divine, angelic nature when he walked this earth. Born-agains often erroneously argue, "An ANGEL could not die for us." JWs do not believe an angel was the ransom sacrifice.
How this all works is irrelevant, since the Bible invokes miracles, and miracles are not worth debating. Whatever Friday and Jan have to argue about will simply become meaningless assertions over definitions.
Dakota, Buzzard's theories are not new, but he sure has an interesting and logical means of discussing them. I have spent time with the man personally. Great guy.
Cygnus... with respect, the issue is not Michael/Jesus but the doctrine of the immortality of the human soul. The inconsistency in J.W. teaching is shown up when one tries to answer the question " What Was Transferred?"
Friday
What life was transferred? The 'life force', which all humans have, which the bible says is the same as what animals have? If so, then this 'life force' is totally impersonal. That means jesus was just another guy, no different from you and me. He had no previous existence, as the wt says we don't.
SS
Not to make this a bible study or anything but this is the kind of stuff that blew my mind when I was finding out the truth about the Org. Its actually very interesting!
I do not believe Jesus is Michael.
The proof is in the bible.
Michael did not have the power to rebuke evil, that is why in
Jude verse 9, Michael called upon God to rebuke the devil because he couldnt.
Jesus did have the power to rebuke.
Read, Mark 1:25 and Matthew 17:18.
Michael clearly states that he does not have the power to rebuke and Jesus clearly does.
Another plus if you believe in the trinity. I still have issues with the trinity doctrine since I grew up believing that it was a lie. Michael calls upon God to rebuke but Jesus doesnt have to. Could the trinity be true?
Somthing to think about, It has been on my mind for awhile.
Sidd,
: with respect, the issue is not Michael/Jesus
Guess I got thrown off by the title of the thread.
: but the doctrine of the immortality of the human soul.
I would suggest that a discussion of pre-existence of souls would be more relevant.
: The inconsistency in J.W. teaching is shown up when one tries to answer the question " What Was Transferred?"
This is all explained in Study 4 of Pastor Russell's 5 Volume. ;)
