Why I Shouldn't Believe in the Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth

by XJW4EVR 127 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  bohm

  J. Hofer wrote:

  winning the lottery isn't all that extraordinary. we know that people win the lottery all the time. there's hundereds of lottery winners every week around the globe. and even though it isn't extraordinary, you wouldn't be able to collect your winnings if you just showed up and tell them that you won the lottery. you could even bring your family and a hundered friends to testify that you won it, it's still a matter of having the correct ticket, nothing more, nothing less.

  on the other hand, seeing an alien, a chupacabra, a yeti, an angel, a demon or a resurrection is pretty much extraordinary, at least when it comes to sane people. actually UFO sightings seem to happen a lot more often than resurrections. even the moster of loch ness seems to have had more observers than any resurrection.

  now i wonder if someone came along and even showed you a picture of an UFO (and there are plenty), would you just believe it? i mean, there are even pictures out there, not just ancient writings.

  but as i said, even though UFOs are less extraordinary than resurrections, most would want extraordinary evidence, not just some interpreted pictures, to believe that they exist and are indeed visiting our planet. more so as we know by experience that such things often are tampered with.

  What i wanted to say, just put clearly: Zombie Feynman rejoice! .
• 

  PSacramento

  If you want to quote eye-witness accounts (written down decades later), notice that IF we agree eye-witness accounts written down years after the fact is persuasive evidence, then we run into the many currently living eye-witness of the miracles of Sai Baba http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba which provide more evidence for him performing miracles, thus we are forced to accept him as a miracle-man as well.

  While what was written by Paul was written some years after Jesus's death and resurrection, there was a ORAL tradition before that AND a possible written creedal tradtion before Paul ( he quotes it in 1Corinthians).

  That said, what Jesus was suppose to have done was not just mentioned by his followers, but by his distractors also, he was accused of sorcery and it was noted in the writings outside the NT that here was some "doubt and discussion" as to whether Jesus had "died or not".

  I don't think that the evidence we have from Sathya, which tended to be mentioned only by his followers, is of the same light as Jesus, BUT even if it were ( anything is possible), that would only lend "credibility" to the claims that Jesus did these miracles ( if they can be called that).
• 

  PSacramento

  The resurrection IS the MOST extraordinary of events.

  There is nothing we can say to make it less extraordinary if it happened.

  A man was killed, horribly, by professionalk soldiers that excelled at killing and he was buried in a tomb that people knew where it was, the tomb was guarded and, on the 3rd day, the tomb was found to be empty.

  After that, his followers, who had been in hiding and fearing for their lives, OPENLY proclaimed him ALIVE and the messiah.

  Multiple eye witness accounts are mentioned and people who proclaimed Christ's resurrection were kicked out of their synagougues and even persecuted till death.

  Now, IF it had been faked then the fakers would most certianly NOT be so open to being persecuted and killed.

  The many other theories over the years have been shown over and over to be even MORE full of issues than the resurrection view.

  The MAIN issues is and always HAS been the simple fact that dead people do NOT come back to life, it just doesn't happen and never happened, untill Jesus came along. ( Elijah and the widows son not withstanding of course).

  Of course if one day we CAN bring back the dead and one day it happens then the whole issue of the resurresction becomes a non-issue.

  Until something happens for the first time, it has never happened.
• 

  J. Hofer

  i know of some people who openly proclaimed that elvis is still alive...

  and i yet have to read an authentic, close to the "events", non-christian text that mentions jesus.
• 

  J. Hofer

  but let's face it, anything faith-based cannot be proven. otherwise it wouldn't be faith-based but empirical, scientific. now some prefer faith, some prefer science and some like to mix it. as long as noone gets hurt that's fine.
• 

  PSacramento

  J, there are books about Jesus outside the NT:

  This is a good place to start IF you are truly interested: Jesus outside the New testmentm by Robert Voorst.

  BUT you make THE point that needs to be accepted by ALL:

  The resurrection is, quite simply, a question of Faith, period.
• 

  J. Hofer

  well, i know there are books about jesus outside the NT (and i read many of them, like the clement letters, gospel of thomas/paul/whoever, other nag hammadi texts etc.). but they are christian books too and even when first attempts to compile a canon were made, many if not most of these books were still held in high regard.

  a NPOV source would be some non-christian historian that lived in the timeframe. the way those christian texts put it, jesus made quite a stir. the romans and jews didn't mention him though until maybe 100 years later or so. because then they heard about him from christians.
• 

  PSacramento

  J.

  The book I suggest states where Jesus is mentioned outside the NT AND outside the Christian writings.

  Its a good read and very unbias ( he goes over the two times Joesephus mentions Christ and takes apart the very altered passage from the later mentioning).

  Jesus made a stir in His "small world", to the romans he was quite simply another crucified criminal and of no note.

  When the movment caught on, then it makes sense that it would get their attention.
• 

  J. Hofer

  i'll add that book to my list. i did read josephus and the passages you talk about and it doesn't take a linguist to see that one of them doesn't fit there at all.
• 

  bohm

  PSac: It is not established the tomb was empty on the 3rd day. that is one of the things which only occur in the much later gospels.

  also: That said, what Jesus was suppose to have done was not just mentioned by his followers, but by his distractors also, he was accused of sorcery and it was noted in the writings outside the NT that here was some "doubt and discussion" as to whether Jesus had "died or not".

  the west coast of africa is stock full of claims of sorcery even today.