Sept.15th WT - Submit to the WT Society or Jehovah Will Not Know You

by flipper 77 Replies latest jw friends

  • WTWizard

    And what about Paul? If I remember, he was a prominent member of the original Christian congregation. He was prominent in making many of the decisions--and, though badly mistaken about Jesus' true teachings, he did try to be reasonable. Not only that, but Paul generally did what he preached and felt bad when he didn't meet his own standards. To me, that shows me that someone is sincere in their beliefs because they are at least trying to live up to them.

    Additionally, Paul had plenty of disagreements. Including the time when Peter tried to hide his associations with Gentiles after being given the OK to preach to them. Another was the fight he and Barnibus had about taking Mark, who had let them down earlier. Since when did Paul try to go off on these people for such breaches of arrangement? I don't remember seeing any occasions when Paul recommended Barnibus be disfellowshipped for apostasy. Nor did I remember Peter getting stripped of assignments and having to work his way back up.

    Speaking of Peter, wasn't it Peter that denied Jesus three times the night of his betrayal after being told he would do so? If someone told me that I was going to do something wrong, I would tend to be more likely to be on guard against it. Yet, Peter denied Jesus three times. This is the same Peter that, just 6 weeks later, was given a major assignment in opening Christianity to the Gentiles. And that wasn't the only time Peter flubbed something up--and major flub-ups, not just little tiny ones like watching porn or questioning something. Peter made some whoppers, including hiding his association with Gentiles. Peter even suggested to Jesus that he not go through with the sacrifice--right to Jesus' face. Did Jesus threaten him? Did Peter lose his "privileges" and have to re-earn them? Was Peter disfellowshipped for "apostasy"? Anyone that would like to show me a scripture that indicates plainly that Peter was disfellowshipped or had to work for a prolonged time (remember, 6 weeks after the denial, he was given the leadership in opening Christianity to Gentiles) before gaining back position, can post it here or elsewhere on this forum.

  • nugget

    So Moses was the meekest man and that was his essential quality for gaining Gods approval. Even though he was God's representative God in fact disciplined him when he was arrogant and brought forth water from the rock. So even though he represented God he was not immune from critiscism or punishment and was accountable for how he led the nation. Aaron too was counseled and punished when he did not follow God's direction.

    But if we look at the governing body and elder arrangement what is the message? The message is that they can do and say whatever they want, that it is the flock who have to be humble and accept everything however intrusive and however bizarre. There is no indication that they have a sense of responsibility or accountability for how they treat the flock.

    They ignore accounts where people took action when they saw corruption and were praised by Jehovah or the time when Moses was counselled by his father in law on how to lead the nation more effectively. It is the typical pick and mix of texts to support the corruption and control. The Bible is full of examples where those in control were challenged by others. Any of the kings, the religious leaders the list is endless. But still the society today cannot afford any openess or challenge since they are so vulnerable. But this goes beyond self preservation the GB is sucking the elders into the same level of arrogance so that they are all invested in maintaining the status quo.

  • punkofnice

    In summary, before we sing the final song that's been chosen appropriately for us by the 'faithful slave', what 5 points have we covered in this weeks study? hand over there.......ah, yes, Brother Schmuckface.

    Clunking noise as roving mike goes to the over-sneer......

    BS = 1. Obey the Governing Body or Jehovah will lovingly murder us SOON*

    2. Obey the Governing Body or Jehovah will lovingly murder us SOON*

    3. Obey the Governing Body or Jehovah will lovingly murder us SOON*

    4. Obey the Governing Body or Jehovah will lovingly murder us SOON*

    5. Obey the Governing Body or Jehovah will lovingly murder us SOON*

    Thank you Brother.....and before we ask the visiting speaker back to the platform to conclude in prayer, let us stand if we are able and sing song number 119 entitled

    ''Obey the Governing Body or Jehovah will lovingly murder us SOON*'' 119.

    Piano music lethargically goes 'plinky plonky plinky plonky.....'

    *(Terms and conditions apply and are subject to 'overlapping' or ‘New Light’TM or the greater of the two)

  • sd-7

    I'm sure I either posted on or did a thread about this awhile ago. I'm not sure why they think the Moses comparison is a good idea. Because MOSES DIDN'T MAKE IT INTO THE PROMISED LAND. Are they trying to tell us something?

    For all his authority, Moses made one slip of the tongue, and that was it. 40 years down the drain. All because he stopped speaking the truth, one time. The Society, by comparison, would've died in year 1 of the trek through the wilderness, 'cause they lie with every other word out of their mouth.

    But that point aside, well, to quote 'The Pretender', "I've witnessed many things, but never Jehovah." How can I be known by someone I've never actually met but read stories about? I might as well be known by Luke Skywalker. I've probably read more stories about him. Anyway, do I want to be known by someone who orders the death of a man for collecting wood on a Saturday? No thanks. Seems like said person might be a little unstable.

    But it's all in the name, man. These aren't Jesus' Witnesses, after all; why would these use a story from the New Testament? They use scriptures the way they do for a reason--they take what supports their preconceived idea and go from there. As long as a scripture is sitting next to the paragraph, it doesn't matter if it actually applies or what the context is. They just go for it.

    It'd be funny if this weren't taken seriously by millions of people. It's funny maybe in a sadistic way, I guess, but that's about it.


  • Quendi

    Thanks, as always, flipper, for sharing this with the board. As others have stated, I can no longer read WTS material. It makes me sick to my stomach, and I am ashamed that I was ever associated with this disgusting cult.

    Yesterday, I visited an old friend whom I had not seen since I was disfellowshipped. It turns out he is disfellowshipped now as well. But he is making strenuous efforts to get reinstated. Well, that is his choice and I respect it. But I was deeply saddened to hear this man, who is quite intelligent, spout the WTS line in answer to my challenges and questions. He cited very few scriptures, and had no answers for my using the Bible to disprove 1914, the existence of a "faithful and discreet slave class", and other Witness doctrines.

    Then he said something that summed it all up for me. "Your problem, Raymond, is that you're too arrogant and prideful. That's why you can't get reinstated. You reject the 'faithful and discreet slave'. You don't believe that God has an organization." Hearing my friend say this made me all the happier that I have left this cult. It strengthened my resolve to never return. Now comes this Watchtower study article which confirms that the WTS is a cult with no more concern for the welfare of the rank and file than the Man in the Moon would have.

    You take a stand for what you know is right, and you're called "apostate", "prideful", "mentally diseased", "arrogant", and so forth. My friend called me "apostate" until I reminded him of the real definition of the word. He then realized that he had accepted the WTS belief on what apostasy was, and not the dictionary's. But seeing the mental paralysis the WTS has inflicted on its followers, I marvel I got out at all.


  • flipper

    Thanks for all the great responses ! You gals & guys rock ! Got back from working all night- I'll respond to your comments.

    TOTALLY ADD- Hello back to you ! How are you my friend ? Good points you make. The WT society discounts any personal feelings that rank & file Witnesses have by the control they wield over them. It goes hand in hand. I think they are running scared and want ultimate control over JW's . So this results in these overcontrolling articles.

    PISTOFF- Good point you make. The apostle Paul or none of the disciples ever kicked out fellow Christians who disagreed with them. Or they never threatened them " with death " for disagreeing. The GB of the WT society puts themselves on a level the same as God- if not higher !

    JECKLE- Very true. The WT society compares themselves to EVERYTHING actually in the Bible. They pull these comparisons out of their rear end. At this stage of the game it's getting very stinky. Like " something's rotten in Denmark. "

    SABASTIOUS- Indeed Moses was certainly not a saint- or without fault. Thanks for that reference. However it seems the WT society just picks and chooses what they want to put forth to make their point. It's the same thing to me when they always use King David as a " positive " example, you know - " Kind David was humble, blah, blah, blah ". Yeah, right. This was a guy who murdered another woman's husband then stole her to be his wife. And the WT society uses HIM as an example of faithfulness ? Like I said- they pick and choose to make THEIR points.

    SKEETER 1- Excellent points and thanks so much for showing the BITE models of mind control and applying it to the article for folks to see exactly how cults like the WT society & Jehovah's Witnesses use those methods to indoctrinate members into utter mind control. Very well done ! Thanks.

    LONG HAIR GAL- Thanks. The only way I can read this stuff when our friend sends it to us - is that I read it with my mind looking for cult mind controlling statements to use in a thread like this one. I am totally able to tune my mind out and turn my mind off to any propaganda so it doesn't influence me- as of course you know I don't believe this $hit. But I feel it's important for newer JWN members to re-read these articles and see them in a different light than was presented to them at JW meetings. And it especially helps when you board members come on and give your takes on the material to enlighten newly exiting Witnesses as to just how insane this information is ! As you say " it should have made the papers." But that would expose the WT society- and they don't want that.

    VAMPIRE- THanks. Exactly as you say ! WT society loves burdening the rank & file Witnesses, but won't budge a finger to lighten the load or perform loving decent works themselves. Your assessment is accurate - very Phariseeical.

    DARINGHART 13 - Very true. WT society wants and indeed demands - blind obedience ! One reason they are definitely shown up to be a mind control cult.

    OUTLAW- LOL ! WT society definitely sucks people in and gives it to them from the rear ! I'll tell you what- that is one smooth looking attractive butt you posted there ! But then I saw the hands and it looked like a man's hands ? The butt looks female, the hands look male ! Oh well, that way it appeals to everybody I guess ! LOL !

    SHIRLEY W- I just looked at the article with the intent I had a job or mission to accomplish. When I approach it that way it's all business to me in that I'm seeking a higher purpose of informing people how insane this information is so they can see it for themselves. At this point being out 8 years - I'm pretty much beyond indoctrination methods of the WT society. But yes, I did need a glass of wine after I wrote it.

    THE TRUE ONE- I hope you are right that the JW's base is shrinking in Europe - and in many other places for that matter. It's all about control how the WT society tries to instill fear and guilt into these Witnesses. Very dangerous when it's done to control 7 million people.

    NO ROOM FOR GEORGE- Good points you make, thanks ! I remember always feeling sad and serious as well as a boy being taken to meetings. I had no joy either. As you stated the WT society makes JW's feel guilty over " natural desires & aspirations " as if having those desires and aspirations are wrong in themselves. It's ridiculous. WT society has always overstepped their boundaries in trying to micro-manage JW's lives. And as you say putting those controlling thoughts into the Baptism vows certainly shows the WT society is more concerned with Witnesses worshipping the WT society than worshipping God for sure.

    CLARITY- Thanks so much for the link and article reference to how the Mormon's use very similar mind control tactics as the Jehovah's Witnesses do ! They are just as controlling and authoritative and will not tolerate any insubordination in any members - and kicks out any members who dissent ! It really is quite scary hoe controlling the WT leaders are getting. If they told 7million JW's to jump off a cliff - I'm sure many of those 7 million would ! And therein really lies the danger here.

    WASBLIND- Exactly. Don't ask. Don't test. Don't seek. WT leaders do NOT want Witnesses checking them out on the Internet- or they WILL find lots of falsehoods abounding in the Witnesses.

    CANTLEAVE- Good point. I do believe that many of our JW relatives think they WILL die if they contact us- for real ! It's fear mongering at it's worst by the WT leaders. I agree- I think the GB 2.0 are alive and unwell . And they are carrying on just as firmly as Ted Jaracz would have wanted them to ! It truly is scary for those still inside and controlled by it ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

    I'll be back in awhile and respond to pg. 2 responders. Thanks again.

  • flipper

    PUNK OF NICE- Exactly. Fear, guilt, and phobias all put forth by the writing committee and GB to instill such into JW's. Really sad. Yet perhaps it will wake some up who are sitting on the fence. I do hope your wife will wake up some day my friend. Hang in there, keep your chin up. I know it's hard.

    WASBLIND- Very true. This religion DOESN'T want it's members to find out it's a mind control cult. That's the sinister and sneaky part about mind control cults- they don't want members to THINK they are being controlled. And THAT is how they are able to pull it off.

    SIR 82- Good points you make. There MUST be lots of JW's complaining about micro-managing elders so the WT society sees the need to squelch any possible uprisings and rebellion against their authority by presenting this hardline information. And the way they use the term " overseer " to me is so demeaning. I mean- my wife Mrs. Flipper who has never been a JW said that hearing that term used in the REAL world is indicitave of how slaves were treated in the Civil war times and dominated by " overseers ". If JW's really looked at the expression in reality- it's very demeaning for humans to have " overseers " over them. Incredible. And as you state- I'm sure lots of elders, er, " overseers " will look at this information and be even more aggressive in using their power and control in congregations.

    MOMMA TOSSED ME- Your point is well taken. I too feel that as the WT society keeps amping up these severe control measures that in time those Witnesses sitting on the fence will actually be pushed onto the exiting side of the fence. Some will be lEAPING off the fence in droves I feel in time. People can only take so much psychological beating down. I know for myself - 8 years ago- I had enough of being judged, manipulated, and controlled. I had reached my breaking point. I couldn't take or stand anymore.

    LIFE IS TOO SHORT- Wow ! So the elders and Circuit Overseer made a big issue of a " road race " and told you not to participate in it ? Even made a talk to the congregation on it ? These people sure pull stuff out of their hat don't they ? Would like tosee in the Bible where it says you can't run a race ! I'm so glad you did it anyway and followed your heart ! Good for you.

    WT WIZARD- Good points you make about Paul & Peter and others disagreeing - yet not being DFed for it or kicked out of the Christian congregation. The WT society assumes WAY too much leeway in exercising it's power and control over other people's lives for things that MANY times are not even IN the Bible ! Just another reason we know WT society is a cult because they follow their OWN mind on things- NOT the Bible's mind.

    NUGGET- Very good point you make - The WT society leaders aren't held accountable at all for how they dole out counsel, discipline , or how they treat rank & file JW's. Yet the rank & file JW's are held accountable for ANY little infraction or sniff of alteration or disagreeing with WT policy or information handed down. Also - Good point you make that the arrogance starts AT THE TOP of the WT society and it is handed down to the elders when they go to the Kingdom Ministry schools to get their " special training ". Then the elders go back to their home congregations and are even MORE indoctrinated , even MORE controlling, even MORE conformed to the instructions handed down from the GB. Then they are free to terrorize their local rank and file " brothers & sisters ". It's a vicious cycle.

    PUNK OF NICE- Exactly. " Obey the Governing Body or Jehovah will lovingly murder us soon. " You hit the nail on the head.

    SD-7 - Maybe subconsciously by using Moses as an example the GB think that THEY themselves won't make it into the promised land ! LOL ! They've made such a practice at ignoring their own consciences for years handing out garbage , false information that perhaps they are feeling guilty. Nope, they'll never ADMIT guilt or feel guilty. They are above that. Just a brain fart on my part. Believe me- the leaders of this JW cult ARE unstable.

    QUENDI- Thanks. I hear you, I have trouble reading this WT crap myself. I just do it to pass on the latest drivel so we know what our JW families are being indoctrinated with. So we can be one up on them- so to speak. Very interesting conversation you had with that DFed friend. It sounds like he's still deeply under the influence of the JW mind control as he wants to be reinstated. Very true what you say- when we ex-Witnesses take a stand for what is right we are labeled " apostates " or " mentally diseased " - even if we speak the real truth ! Most JW's would just as soon bury their heads in the sand like ostriches and believe in lies unfortunately . Very sad. You did a good job talking with your friend though. Way to go. Maybe he'll think in time

  • Open mind
    Open mind


  • ziddina
    Sir82: "<Face palm> Congregations will now become even more micromanaged, and frustration levels will increase. "

    And more and more people will become discouraged and leave, especially the young, the single males who are potential Ministerial Servants, and quite possibly more elders...

  • flipper

    OPEN MIND- Glad you like it ! Thanks

Share this