1874, 1914 and 1943

by TD 96 Replies latest jw friends

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  jwfacts

  @jwfacts: Prior to 1914 the Watchtower taught that the second coming was in 1874. Prove this by providing a quote from any Watchtower publication that teaches that Christ's second coming occurred in 1874. Until you should get around to producing such a quote, this statement of yours is a lie. @djeggnog

  I provided a quote showing that it the teaching was that the second coming was in 1874.

  "The second coming of the Lord, therefore, began in 1874; and that date and the years 1914 and 1918 are specially marked dates with reference to his coming. Prophecy can not be understood until it has been fulfilled or is in the course of fulfillment. From 1874 to 1914 the prophecy concerning the Lord's coming was being fulfilled and could be understood, and was understood, by those who were faithful to the Lord and who were watching the development of events, but not by others."? Creation 1927 This was also written before 1914. "Thus we found the time of our Lord's second advent clearly proven to be 1874 in October of that year, as shown in Vol. 11., chap. vi." .... the Jubilee Cycles show October 1874 to be the date of our Lord s return" The Time of the Harvest (1911ed)p.127 "While the time-prophecies thus point to and harmonize with 1874 as the date of our Lord s second presence, assuring us of the fact with mathematical precision, we find ourselves overwhelmed with evidence of another character; for certain peculiar signs, foretold by the Lord and the apostles and prophets, which were to precede his coming, are now clearly recognised as actually fulfilled. ... The cleansing of the sanctuary was also accomplished as predicted, and at a time sufficiently in advance of 1874 to make ready "a people prepared for the Lord" a people in devout expectancy of his coming" The Time of the Harvest (1911ed)p.129 "1874 as the exact date of our Lord s return" The Time of the Harvest (1911ed) p.306 "The second advent of our Lord in the end or harvest of the Gospel age, occurring in the fall of 1874, proves to be at a point of time exactly parallel to the time of his first advent, in the end of the Jewish age." The Time of the Harvest (1911ed)p.125 "... he would in reality assume the kingly office, power, etc., viz., in the spring of 1878, three and a half years after his second advent at the beginning of the harvest period, in the fall of 1874." The Time of the Harvest (1911ed)p.234
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  cantleave

  Is it just me, or when you read an eggnog post, do you hear the psychotic, squeaky, hyperventilating voice of a mad man?
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  Cameron_Don

  Djeggnog,

  You quoted the December 1, 1984 Watchtower article where it said...

  "Russell and his associates quickly understood that Christ’s presence would be (future tense) invisible."

  But as you know, Russell had no idea that Christ had already been present since 1874 until he met with Nelson Barbour two years in 1876. And so Russell never understood that Christ would be invisibly present sometime in the future. He understood that Christ had already been present (past tense) since 1874.

  To me that would be similar to saying today that the Governing Body understands that Christ's presence will be (future tense) invisible. But we know that they understand that Christ's presence already is (present tense) invisible, and has been since 1914.

  It's interesting how people can read the same thing but see what it says differently.

  Don
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  Cameron_Don

  One of the terms the Society has used to refer to Christ's parousia is "second presence."

  It looks like its a combination of two other terms that have been used: "SECOND Coming" and "invisible PRESENCE" = "invisible presence."
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  Cameron_Don

  Correction: Combining "SECOND Coming" and "invisible PRESENCE " = "second presence."

  This suggests to me that "Second Coming" and "invisible presence" do in fact refer to the same thing. - Matthew 24:3

  Don
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  Cameron_Don

  Djeggnog,

  You asked JWfacts: "P rovide a quote from any Watchtower publication that teaches that Christ's second coming occurred in 1874. Until you should get around to producing such a quote, this statement of yours is a lie."

  It appears that he has provided what you asked for.

  How do you respond to the quotes he provided?

  Don
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  diamondiiz

  Cameron_Don

  The WT from 1928 that decribes their belief system shows that parousia refered to 1874. Article is up there on the previous page.
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  kurtbethel

  The real deeper point of this exercise in examining Watchtower claims is that if you believe Watchtower teachings, you are accepting a socially constructed reality as being true, while the evidence points to the contrary. If you are being totally honest with yourself, you might say, "These teachings go against discernable evidence, but I feel good accepting them anyway so I will believe it because it feels good to do so."

  Fine. But do not show up at my door to peddle your delusions.
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  Cameron_Don

  Here is somehing I think is interesting about what Russell believed about Jesus' Second Coming. It comes from his booklet "THE OBJECT AND MANNER OF THE LORD'S RETUIRN"

  Chapter I: THE OBJECT OF THE SECOND ADVENT

  Note: The word Advent comes from the Latin adventus, which means "coming." Therefore the title could have been...

  THE OBJECT OF THE SECOND COMING

  The actual word "COMING" is in fact used in the title of Chapter II...

  THE MANNER OF CHRIST'S SECOND COMING.

  Russell explains: "The Greek word generally used in referring to the second advent (Second Coming) , Parousia, frequently translated 'coming'."

  I feel this establishes a very critical point. Russell is relating Jesus' second coming to his parousia.

  Therefore, it looks to me that according to his booklet, since Russell believed that Jesus' parousia began in 1874 therefore he believed that his "Second Coming" began in 1874.

  Don
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  Cameron_Don

  Here is an interesting quote I came across:

  "In 1877 Russell published (along with a friend named Nelson Barbour) a book titled The Three Worlds or Plan for Redemption. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (Charles Russell’s Society, which later became known as Jehovah’s Witnesses) commented on this book:

  “In this book, the partners, Russell and Barbour, announced their faith that the Second Coming of Christ had actually begun in 1874, which was prolonged by forty years called the period of harvest, and will appear on the face of accuracy in 1914 as the end of the times of the nations.”

  "These are their exact claims (not ours) quoted from the book they published. A dispute occurred between them and they parted. Thereafter Charles Taze Russell instituted his own magazine called Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence."

  Don