by Band on the Run 101 Replies latest jw friends
UC, no need to be condesending and I KNOW YOU suffered at the hands of the JW's, but I am wondering if ithas gone beyond that.
If it is too personal I understand and respect that.
As for learning from history, yes I agree 100% on ALL sides of the coin, not just the religious or christian side.
And I have suffered from so-called Christianity. Why do you think we're on this site? Because we like puppy dogs and ice cream cones?
Ok wait. . . if thats not why you're here, then what?
Kurt Vonnegut: "Who is more to be pitied, a writer bound and gagged by policemen or one living in perfect freedom who has nothing more to say?"
UC,
<< thin-skinned Christians will have to endure being exposed as "irrational". Tit for tat. They don't want to be ridiculed or criticised, then don't push beliefs on people.>>
What is rational often depends on ones' premises. Tit for tat means that thin-skinned Atheists will just have to endure Christians praising God in public and presenting ("pushing") making and declaring what God has done for them.
<<Someone who praises God for some simple everyday act is going to be ridiculed by me as irrational. If that makes me a "fascist Atheist" so be it. >>
You can't have it both ways. If you, like Condell, want to justify rude, insulting and pushy behavior for one group, then what's good for the goose.....and let's bring back Godrulz. :)
yeah,great info on the post!
Welcome cain89!
-Sab
and thin-skinned Christians will have to endure being exposed as "irrational". Tit for tat. They don't want to be ridiculed or criticised, then don't push beliefs on people. If they want to exericise their rights, then don't bitch when people who don't agree with them exercise their right. Someone who praises God for some simple everyday act is going to be ridiculed by me as irrational. If that makes me a "fascist Atheist" so be it. Rather that than being labeled irrational and delusional.
I have met few Christians that have a handle on this concept. The world would be so much better if they just understood this. Many Christian's can't take the heat!
-Sab
Sorry but this thread reminded me of this person:
I confess that I hold atheists to a higher standard. The stereotype is that you are better educated and have decent knowledge of the sciences. I do expect more nuance from an atheist than a born again evangelical. Oh, what is the name of Homer Simpson's neighbor? Ed Flanders! It is a stock piece now. Respecting my beliefs, I feel more camraderie with atheists than fundamentalists. Sadly, I live in Mennonite country now rather than a multiple religion society. Overreaching bothers me. They don't seem to have any idea that they chase away far more people than they nab. There is a very palpable difference to me for someone asserting their views and someone crossing the line into harassment. My comment was not in reaction to any specific threads.
My disdain for the Witnesses is clear. It scares me sometimes. The doctrines repulse me and often a casual reading of the Bible itself illuminates the issue. What truly triggers me is not the doctrines. I am presently Episcopal. Many Anglican beliefs are just as nutty. Anglicanism has a certain social status that the Witnesses will never achieve. The telling difference for me is the process and the culture.
If I hate something, I usually suspect something deep within me is driving the hate. My antidote to the Witnesses is respect for everyone. Control is the deal breaker for me.
I'd rather have some doctrinaire people who annoy me than not to have any different viewpoints.
I don't mind having my views challenged.
As many here have noticed, I welcome it,
Makes me a better Christian.
I do however mind being called dillusional, ignorant, stupid, idiotic, less then bright and even a horrible father, al things I HAVE been called on her by atheists.
I am a simple guy.
I have a degree in Business and Mechanical Eng and working to one in theology.
I have travelled the world and served my cuntry as a peackeeper, seeing active duty in Bosnia.
I have been able to counter-arguments from JW's, Pentacostals, Calvinists and atheists alike.
I pride myself on being tolerant, loving rational and base my beliefs on reason.
To have those notions challenged by people is right and correct, as many have done so here.
BUT to be dissmissed SIMPLY because I do believe in God and I am a Christian, which atuomatically means I am dilusional, ignorant and NOT being rational, resonable and not using critical thinking....
Well, that's just quite simply wrong.
I must second what dear PSacto (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!) has stated and is trying to convey (may you ALL have peace!). The problem is that there is LOT of hypocritical finger-pointing... and generalizing. The message that many on BOTH sides tend to send is that "all atheists" such and so... and "all christians" such and so. True, atheists are a BIT more unified in their beliefs... but given that they're a fairly young UNITY (young meaning no longer having to hide)... we'll have to wait and see how that progresses (because christian unity was "young" once... and we see where THAT'S gone). Now, some will say that atheism will NOT follow the route of christianity... but those who believe that forget the one variable the two have in COMMON: humans. If anyone wants to sit here and say that atheism will NEVER engage in the atrocities that "christianity" has... I would say, "You don't know your history very well." And I don't mean Pol Pot, et al. - I'm thinking barbarians, ancient moguls, and others of that ilk.
The PROBLEM... IS intolerance... on BOTH sides... as well as a hypocritical aversion of each side to the other. I have rarely addressed atheists on this board (beyond the sundry thread on evolution, the evolution of HUMANS which is the ONLY "scientific" theory that I vehemently disagree with); yet, many atheists address ME and my comments. Over the years, however, these comments have gone from direct attacks, to strong contention, to reasonable discussion... to even concurrence in some instances. The same has occurred with "believers".
The bottom line, however, is that we, every ONE of us... atheist, unbeliever, agnostic, gnostic, believer "christian", "anointed"... or whatever we call ourselves and/or identify with... HAVE A CHOICE... as to what we believe/do not believe, what we will discuss ABOUT what we believe/do not believe... and with whom... and what we will read/listen to... and FROM whom.
It may SEEM like we don't have a choice... but we really do. Especially here. We can CHOOSE to open... or not open... a thread. We can CHOOSE to read... or not read... a post. We can CHOOSE to discuss... or not discuss... a topic. We can CHOOSE to ignore anyone... and anything... we CHOOSE. We can also choose... what comments we will ALLOW to offend us.
Don't agree with someone's beliefs, thoughts, comments, assertions? The TRULY INTELLIGENT thing is to state WHY you don't agree... and "because it irritates/pisses me off"... really isn't an intelligent response. It's the EASY one, yes... and probably the accurate one... but it doesn't help the other to SEE where YOU believe he/she is WRONG (because that IS what's irritating you, isn't it, your belief that they're wrong... either in WHAT they're saying... or HOW?).
Look, there are a LOT of super-intelligent people on this board. Formally educated and not so formally educated. Even if not, we're pretty much all adults. Rather than expressing our own personal irritation at someone else's believes... or delivery of those beliefs... why not SHOW them where they are wrong IN those beliefs... or, if you cannot, endeavor to UNDERSTAND their beliefs... or, if you cannot not... IGNORE their beliefs?
I mean... I'm just sayin'... don't we ALL have enough going on in REAL life (you know, in the REAL world we all live in outside of this board)... than to come HERE and take issues with others for doing the SAME thing we're doing... to one extent or another? I know I certainly do.
Whether you are a believer... or unbeliever... life is WAY too short... and many here have only recently given themselves permission to LIVE it... to waste it on taking offense at things YOU can control. Live YOUR life... and don't worry too much about how others are living theirs... including what they do... or do not... believe.
Again, I bid you all peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA, whose main concern is really only the truth about God and Christ. Because everything else is a bit of a moving target... and I'm already cross-eyed...
