New here - hello!

by sickandtired 62 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Welcome. All the best advice has already been taken, so all I will add to it is: LISTEN TO IT. I've only been here just under two years and I have seen the results of people posting here needing encouragement and advice and then following none of it, to their misery. The vast majority of people here have been through what you're going through. It is difficult but you can't let your heart rule you in this part of the journey.

    I would like to comment about this part, in case you are still doctrinally confused:

    "We looked at the WT CD library and he was okay with the explanation they offered of trusting the Bible chronology over secular."

    The problem with that view is that the Watchtower does NOT trust "Bible chronology over secular" even though they claim that's what they're doing. They use a secularly established date - 539 BCE - from which to determine all the other dates in their chronology. Problem is, the secular support for 539 also supports 586/7 for the destruction of Jerusalem, AND there is NO scriptural evidence that the destruction of Jerusalem has ANYthing to do with the prophecy in Jeremiah that they claim it does, or that it has any sort of secondary fulfillment relating to the "time of the end." EVERY PART of the 607-1914 doctrine is interpretation of various scriptures comingled with handpicked secular dates. None of it is explicit in the Bible and very little of it is even implicit.

    In short, it is bunk from start to finish.

    A few books have been recommended. Combatting Cult Mind Control is crucial. Crisis of Conscience and Captives of a Concept are very valuable.

    And patience. LOTS of patience.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Welcome. I am sorry to hear that you are in such a difficult situation.

    there were a lot of very intelligent people who believed in it

    As you noted, Mormons are similar to JWs, and there are a lot of intelligent people that believe that religion. That is a good point to make with your husband. It is those subtle comments that are not directly apostate or attacking of your husband, but will stick with him, that in time may help him leave. Ask him if he were raised a Mormon, would he be equally convinced it is the truth.

    There is no rush to leave, but you are on a pathway now that you will not be able to reverse. Over time, and particularly with the more you research, you will find you are unable to be a JW and put up with the comments from the hall. You will be particularly concerned for the children. Unfortunately there is no easy solution.

    You should tell your husband the distress you are in that you need to discuss the religion, but feel he is not able to with you. Stress that you cannot open your feelings with him, as you know if you spoke of doubts he would put the religion before you, and go to the elders about your concerns. If you do not get it out on the table overtime you will die inside.

    I wish you all the best. Just keep in mind it is a long term project and it will take years for you to work through this, but things will turn out for the best.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Welcome. I also encourage you to read Steve Hassan's two books, COMBATTING CULT MIND CONTROL and RELEASING THE BONDS;EMPOWERING PEOPLE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES. The first will help you see how JW's are very much like Moonies or Mormons or other cults. The second will help you to help someone else start thinking.

    I also agree with AK-Jeff. Unfortunately, things don't automatically get better when you realize your family is living in a lie instead of the truth. But in the long run, you will figure out that the pain was a necessary thing to make you stronger.

  • sickandtired
    sickandtired

    Thanks to each and every one of you for your responses! I feel not so alone anymore:) It's weird that I'm in this place right now. I have A LOT of trouble going out in service and have avoided studying with anyone for years. Not until recently did I realize that I was doing that because I didn't fully believe the doctrines myself. I honestly feel like a hamster in a wheel sometimes. Part of me wants to believe it's all true but I just can't seem to do it. What I think I have the hardest time with (as far as whether or not to believe it's the "truth") is when I look at the unity in the organization and how people overcome deep seated prejudices when they become Witnesses. I know that there are still Witnesses that harbor prejudices, but overall the organization has overcome racial and national barriers - a worldwide organization. I've tried to look for another organization to compare, but I come up empty. Maybe someone can help me with this. Is my view of this skewed? I think I know the answer to this question.

    Thanks again, guys! I actually got tears in my eyes when I read all of your responses. Your advice is most appreciated!

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    I know that there are still Witnesses that harbor prejudices, but overall the organization has overcome racial and national barriers - a worldwide organization. I've tried to look for another organization to compare, but I come up empty.

    In terms of international religious organisations you are probably right. Not everything about JW's is negative. As you pointed out, they also strive for high moral standards.

    In terms of Organisations of any description (inc non-religious) . . . there are plenty that promote tolerance and acceptance and are internationally represented. Amnesty International springs to mind . . . but if you google you will find heaps more.

    I guess the question remains . . . are the positive features of a Religious Organisation reasons in themselves to ignore the negatives and duplicity in other areas?

    Morality and racial tolerance is something we can espouse and practice without necessarily joining a religion to accomplish it. And as you pointed out there are those JW's that still hold prejudices but conceal them due to fear . . . and we know what that's called.

    Developing "critical thinking" skills will guarantee us a more balanced perspective . . . there are books and on-line help in this area too.

    Good question however.

  • nancy drew
    nancy drew

    We certainly welcome you here. This is a place of understanding and where you can get a reality check.

    The organization makes it very difficult to think clearly and something to keep in mind is just because you love your husband and care about many at the hall doesn't make the information true. It becomes difficult because the org demands total mental obedience and exacts a stiff penalty on those who question.

    Is that right behavior for an org who claims to be the loving answer?

  • jean-luc picard
    jean-luc picard

    Welcome sickandtired.

    I get the impression that, whilst not against the principle of being a jehovahs witness, you are beginning to doubt that it IS the truth, as we were all led to beleive, and therefore, you are wondering if you are not just wasting your life?

    You say that your husband is your best friend. Perhaps you would prefer spending your time differently together?

    Understanding the real reason why you feel like you do, might well help you decide on what course to take next.

    I wish you well on your search.

    jlp

  • sickandtired
    sickandtired

    Good points, Sizemik. I am still emotionally invested in this religion (family has everything to do with it - I'm not particularing attached to people in the congregation). I think that colors my thinking. I keep thinking that maybe God is backing the Witnesses because I see evidence of love and harmony that I have not seen in any other religion.

    New Chapter-

    I noticed you mentioned the mammoths. I vaguely remember reading something about that. I'll look into it further.

    JLP-

    Thanks for your thoughtful words -

    I think you summed up nicely what is going on with me. I think that I started resenting "the truth" a little because it has taken a HUGE chunk of our life. My husband is a genuine person and busts is butt on behalf of the congregation. It's a thankless job, really. He gets frustrated a lot and he's tired. He's the youngest on the BOE. A lot of them are old and really can't do much anymore. I joke to him sometimes that it's like he's in the mob. A lot of my critical thinking started happening when I saw how much we were expected to invest into the organization.

    I guess I would be okay with living the life of a Witness except for the fact that there is considerable pressure to preach and get bible studies to bring others in. I have issues with teaching people stuff that I don't agree with. What I don't get is why so many DO agree with it. I guess at one time I did, or at least I thought I did and then realized that I just swallowed it because of the good things I did agree with.

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    I keep thinking that maybe God is backing the Witnesses because I see evidence of love and harmony that I have not seen in any other religion.

    The family situation in relation to our belief and participation . . . is a particulary difficult one to cope with mentally. We do tend to look for validation for "not rocking the boat" in order to ease that mental burden. No need to feel too troubled about that . . . family considerations are all the validation you need to keep things "steady as you" go for now.

    Having said that . . . being accurrately informed is preferable to a head in the sand approach . . . that just eats away at you. As many have said already . . . take your time with this . . . and stick around. There are many here who have been, and are going through, exactly what your experiencing. There are even some active, appointed elders here who are non-believers with family to consider. I personally was a member for 26 years and raised my family there.

    There is a wealth of information through this site and others that will enlighten you as to just how loving and harmonious and truthful this religion really is. You will also find plenty to guide you through the future at your own pace and in your own direction, depending on what sort of future you really want.

    All the best to you . . . and take your time

  • AMNESIANO
    AMNESIANO

    SickandTired,

    I was an active baptized JW for 29 years, an elder's wife for 25 of them---a 100% believing, much-beloved, extremely "prominent," highly-regarded company man, valued and used extensively both locally and by HQ---up until 2001 when, after years of wrestling with myself and God, I gave in to the monumentally difficult but conscientious conclusion that had haunted me for years: that I could not and would no longer promote the faith to others nor remain connected with it myself. I didn't disassociate, I didn't fade, I simply ceased all of it all at once---attending any weekly meetings, engaging in field service, attending assemblies, conventions and, most significantly, the Memorial. Though it hasn't been easy, especially in the early years following my decision, my husband and I have remained married. While he has continued active with the JWs, he was immediately deleted as an elder for not "presiding over his household in a fine manner." Not surprisingly, I was the "household" over which he was not presiding properly. Since my exit in 2001 I've only set foot in a Kingdom Hall on 3 occasions---all funeral/memorial services. I have no association with JWs whatsoever any longer, with the exception of the rare occasion of my husband's and my invitation to one of his family's "gatherings."
    In the last several years since my departure my husband has been solicited repeatedly to "serve" again as an elder, however, he himself now has too many of his own misgivings and doubts regarding the organization to conscientiously teach and enforce the many of its doctrines and dogma in which he no longer believes himself. How ironic that his being removed as an elder after having served faithfully and conscientiously as either the congregation servant or presiding overseer since he was 20 years old was the very event that for the first time ever afforded him the reprieve from the whirlwind of responsibilities he needed to pause and truly consider all that he'd unquestioningly accepted as "truth" for so many years.

    Once he did, he began to recognize that much of his devotion was really just to rote habit and routine, duty and administration; that much of what he accepted on faith was, upon contemplation, unchallenged WT puffery. Much to my delight---and because he never, ever craved, sought or defined himself by his innumerable WT "privilileges of service"--- he took to his new stress-free life and freed-up schedule like a paroled prisoner. Never in his adult life had he such possession of his own life and schedule. He's even acknowledged that once you either step off or are pushed off the treadmill of JW's exhausting busy-ness, it's like a fog you never knew existed miraculously lifting from your thinking. Though his pride impels him to offer some token defense of certain aspects of JW indoctrination to cover for his own continued involvement, he never does so with anything remotely approaching real conviction and even sometimes permits himself to join me in chuckling at the absurdities.

    His maintaining active status with the Witnesses over the past decade appears to be driven mainly by two difficult realities: 1) the investment with them of all but the first 13 years of his nearly 6 decades of life--- doggedly in the face of what he himself now readily concedes is its abysmal record of self-congratulatory claims, blasphemously-arrogated authority, and notoriously-failed prophecies---repeatedly, over many decades; and 2) the fact that his few remaining family are still, nominally at least, believing members. Obviously neither reason is based in his confidence in the organization or his faith in its teachings, a gradual development that would at one time have been unfathomable for this once-lockstep adherent.

    All this is to say that there is nothing you are feeling or experiencing with which I cannot completely empathize. Unlike you, however, the worst of it for me was having absolutely no one in whom to confide or from whom to seek counsel as my most persistent, agonizing doubts and reservations finally broke through my mental blockades in the mid-90s--- during what was the embryonic stage of the internet and well before the emergence of the Web. I speak from tragic personal experience when I warn you that that kind of emotional and psychic suppression and isolation are a ticking time-bomb that eventually, but most assuredly, detonates, often causing lasting, irreparable damage to your physical health. I do not recommend it. I wish to leave you and other "sisters" in your quandary who may be reading this a word of advice: If you become convinced that the religion of the WT is not the true worship it is advertised to be, you must not delay planning and executing your exit. The younger you and your children are when you make the break, the greater the odds of your achieving the happy, successful life you and they desire and deserve. The persistent regret I have is that even after I strongly doubted the religion to be "the truth," I remained another 10 years trying to re-dedicate myself to it, fervently praying for something in me or it to change. By the time I could no longer endure the agony (and had started to suffer some alarming health symptoms), I had squandered a valuable window needed to reprogram my young child, had unprofitably delayed academic and professional pursuits, and had neglected nurturing critical relationships and laying foundations for our post-JW life. I cannot urge you strongly enough to learn from my experience.

    Best of luck to you and others in similar predicament. Of course, if you make smart decisions, you won't need to rely on luck. AMNESIAN

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