A few Dawkins quotes to think about. (page 11)

cofty

But if the universe was truly chaotic and without any form of order, we should have universes and galaxies colliding into one another

They do - if you think natural life on earth is violent and chaotic you should read astronomy - wow!

The idea that "not one of them is missing" is much mistaken. Our own galaxy is on a collision course with the Andromeda galaxy. You can see it with the naked eye on a clear night.

Why do you christians so blithley accept the carnage of the natural world s being god's inevitabel plan to maintain balance. Could he not have created a world where animals bred within sustainable limits and died peacefully at a time limit set by him? Watch an antelope being chased down by a pride of lions or a seal pup being used as a toy by a killer whale or a Sea Lion ripping apart the pups of a harem he has taken over and tell me it speaks of a loving god.

sabastious

While it is great to say that God is omnipotent and that God should make the world like WE want it to be,lets remember one thing here, WE don't know any better than what we know NOW and while the universe is the way it is and nature is the way it is, and we KNOW THAT, why on earth would we think it should be any other way??

The second we allow ourselves to attach a "should" to the realm of God then we have already fell into the tiger pit.

-Sab

leavingwt

PSacramento: I'm willing to concede that God loves suffering. The dictionary definition will suffice.

cofty

Would be fun to start a thread; I am a theist. I need to get some work done before I invest the time.

May I recommend "The Unverse Next Door" by Sire as a good starting point.

unshackled

Couldn't agree more, so what are you doing about it?

I'm doing my best thank you...but is frustrating that it is only a drop in the bucket. We need more help. So what are you doing about it?

Agreed, but what makes you think that is wrong?

You sure like asking questions Psac! So in turn, what makes you think people suffering is right?

Damn you guys! I'm trying to work here and this discussion is too engaging. Get back to work OR discuss the world's issues?

cofty

To create a Universe that allows for free beings like ourselves without the possibility for evil would be a logical impossibility.

OK how about one with less natural disasters? How about one where tectonic plates slide over one another? Is that too hard for god? I reckon I would have at least made the earth less hazardous.

sabastious

Why do you christians so blithley accept the carnage of the natural world s being god's inevitabel plan to maintain balance.

It's only carnage if we name it carnage. I think that's a very underestimated truth.

-Sab

PSacramento

PSacramento: I'm willing to concede that God loves suffering. The dictionary definition will suffice.

God, the masochist? LOL!
I thought he was a sadist? or both !

Pika_Chu

@Tammy: I think the whole chaos/order thing depends on what level of nature we are talking about. The universe as a whole doesn't seem to be very structured, but when we look closer at our galaxy and solar system, we see structure. We see a little disorder too, rocks flying around, stars blowing up, potential black holes swallowing everything around and all...and then, on Earth, it's kind of a toss-up between order and disorder as well. Then, we look at the divisions and levels of life (this, in itself, we can argue is rather sturctured)--environments to communities to populations to organisms to organ systems to organs to tissues to cells to organelles--then we end up at the molecular level, VERY structured, Atomic level is structured....subatomic...getting strange and beautiful--actual quark names, oddly enough :). Then there's the wonderful, chaotic world of quantum mechanics...a crazy, crazy level indeed, yet from all the disorder at the bottom of the hour-glass shape of organization (I made that up!), we see a point in the middle where there is a high level of organizational structure, and then we get Uber-Macro and look at the universe (we can even contemplate and include the multiverse), and, well, everything gets crazy again.

Not sure why I said all that...guess I just like to hear myself type in a British accent.

sabastious

May I recommend "The Unverse Next Door" by Sire as a good starting point.

Oh I meant my day job, lol.

-Sab

A few Dawkins quotes to think about.

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