by nicolaou 109 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
@Psac: yes, we ask for it as proof, because we do NOT believe god has revealed himself to humanity. Not through his "creation," not through writings, and certainly not through his silence. When all that fails, what else can one look forward to from god, if he exists?
You may not see God in any of those things and that is your perspective and you may be correct, but the point is that while personal revelation is "not valid" it is the ONLY thing that IS valid.
@PSac: I didn't say it was invalid, I just said I would scrutinize such a phenomenon.
I am now convinced it is all nonsense. Worse than that it is divisive, elitist, dangerous nonsense - Cofty
It pains me that you were exposed to such a horrific expression of Christ's Love, truly it does. PSacremento
I'm not sure why you would assume that?
I truly enjoyed most of my time as a christian, just as I enjoyed a lot of my years as a JW. I understand all about grace and love and mercy and its all very appealing. Once you take the goggles off though it turns out to have a very dark message at its heart.
The message: 'Those on my left will be tossed into everlasting fire'. Jesus of the NT
And do you know what that fire is, Designs?
Do you think it might be pride/anger, jealousy, hatred, resentment for those who followed Christ and love and entered the Kingdom, while they, themselves, were not permitted within?
Tammy
I'm not sure why you would assume that?
By the words you wrote, case in point:
I truly enjoyed most of my time as a christian, just as I enjoyed a lot of my years as a JW. I understand all about grace and love and mercy and its all very appealing. Once you take the goggles off though it turns out to have a very dark message at its heart.
Dark message?
I guess I can see where parts can be viewed as having a dark message, yes.
Whenever I see Sam Harris, it alsways brings me to this review of one of his books:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=231089
While Vox tends to be a bit "intense" in mode of condemnation, he doe sback us his stuff with actual facts.
In his book the Irrational Atheist he dismantles Harris arguments, all with facts that are easlit found with simpel google searches.
I think its admirable that Harris tries so hard to justify his beliefs, in that he is a very "faithful" individual.
[deleted]
Is there a penalty for rejecting Jesus.
This statement requires both a defective idea of what "salvation" actually is and an extremely distorted notion of "God".
In the mind of the early Church, mercy and justice are the same thing. From the perspective of the early Church, God is not an angry wrathful God Who punishes his creation. Rather, our God does not punish man for eating from the Tree, but man damages or hurts himself. Our Father is a loving Father, a Father who loves us no matter what we do because His Mercy and Love is limitless.
God's Grace is everywhere at all times, He continually reaches out to us, and seeks the salvation of all. i.e he wants a relationship with his creation. But we just ain't interested! Christ's death does not satisfy the demands of a wrathful Judge because God isn't demanding appeasement. Rather, man needs rescuing from death and satan because death holds us captive, God is not the one who holds us captive. Man has been given two options, and he can exercise his free will. The only thing more powerful than God is our will to resist Him. His love and respect for us is so great that He permits us to resist His Love; Him. Thus if we, by our own will, choose to reject Him, we reject Love.How do you define condemnation? What is hell?
I believe when we are separated from God, we are already in hell.
Have you read Kalomiros' The River of Fire, etc?
"God is a consuming fire. The fire in heaven and the fire in hades are nothing but one and the same fire, i.e. God's infinite love for us.Those in heaven are deified by this infinite divine fire, while those in hades have some spiritual obstacle within themselves closing the doors of their hearts to this fire -the doors of hell are locked on the inside. Thus, in hades there must be some sort of fire - a fire which produces a 'spiritual torment' for those in hades and a spiritual growth and bliss for those in heaven. But, again, be careful: the torments of that fire are not a direct punishment of God - it is the souls that can't stand the heat of God's love."
It all comes down to interpretation:
The English word "brimstone" or "sulfur", for example, is a translation of the Greek word "theion" which means both "sulfur" and "divine being". When we burn sulfur, it gives off a bright light and intense heat which is difficult to look at. The lake of fire and brimstone can equally be translated as the lake of Divine Energy and the Presence of God. Everyone will experience the Divine Light and Heat of the Energy of God. However, we will all experience this differently- the flames which left the Three Hebrew Children in the firey furnace unharmed were the same flames which "consumed those who looked into the furnace". 2 Thess 1:7-9 translates literally from the Greek as "the faithful will, get relief at the revelation of the Lord Jesus coming out from heaven with His powerful angels in flames of fire". But, this same presence of Christ causes others to be "punished" because of the presence of God.
