Hello

by Chariklo 132 Replies latest jw experiences

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  godrulz

  Being married to a JW makes one an expert experientially? If I read ex-JW and JW material/experiences, I will be in the same boat that you are more or less. Counter-cult ministries often know more about the JWs than JWs themselves who have their past censured.

  Saying someone is not deserving is classic JW nonsense, ironically, hypocritically.

  In your view, is anyone who claims to be a Christian a Christian (Hitler, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Joseph Smith, Herbert W. Armstrong, etc.)? Ted Bundy claimed to be Mormon. Is he a good Mormon in right standing living according to its precepts as a serial killer/rapist?
• 

  jgnat

  Your modus is to attack, isn't it? Remember what thread you are on. I find Charilko to be a thoughtful, intelligent and sensitive individual, willing to own up to his own mistakes, and earnestly trying to find his way. I'll respond to him in kind. I am sure he will find his way.

  I won't reveal my deepest heart motives to you, godrulz, because you are proven to be untrustworthy. You are undeserving to safeguard my heart. Now whether you are deserving of a good lunch, that is your own affair.

  Make up your mind. Am I JW or not JW? I've earned my place on this board, nine years and counting, with over 16,000 posts. Most of the time, I pause and give a thoughtful reply. The intelligence you've gathered about JW's and ex-JW community I could fit in my pinky. Your intelligence won't get any better, either, until you start to listen.

  Regarding who is Christian and who is not, what does it matter what people self-declare? God reads all hearts and knows. It is not my place to judge.
• 

  Chariklo

  "missing me at meetings"....

  Wahoo! What'd I tell ya?

  Oh yes, you did, jgnat, and by now they, elders etc, have all woken up to the fact that I am absent from meetings and "service" outings and the phone calls are coming thick and fast. Can you believe this, I even find myself struggling to put my point of view across, and then afterwards feel myself getting sucked back though I absolutely don't want to. And, as always, the trouble is that the individuals talking to me go out of their way to be kind and understanding and allow me time to think while still emphasising the importance of the meetings to which I resolutely will not go.

  There is also the underlying and articulate threat of displeasing the Almighty by not acknowledging that the WT is right.

  Ok, I KNOW this is nonsense, but it is all mixed up with genuinely well-understood Biblical interpretation and it is that mix that gets to me every time. I've finished this evening with a nightmare vision of me being forever on the end of a line with these people slowly reeling me in...NOOOO! (Get that nightmare feeling?)

  And I have to say it all makes me feel less and less like returning to my own church or any other branch of organised religiion because, let's face it, if you look at all the world's major religions dispassionately, in their true form and of course not instantly going into anti-Moslem mode, it's clear that there are elements of good in all that I can think of anyway. Elements of bad too.

  Makes you think.

  So, jgnat, and anyone else experienced in dealing with JW's and nearly/almost-JW's, is there any way I can set myself free without being downright rude to apparently very kind people? Or am I just going to bite the bullet and be really brutal?

  All help appreciated.
• 

  jgnat

  You mentioned not being involved in any church for a while. I'd suggest a year or more. This is the advice of the best veterans of the board, and after much hard experience, I see why. You have to sort out who you are first, without being bombarded with yet another set of beliefs. It is this stabilization and celebration of the individual that is so important. (Expecting another rant from godrulz on that one. I'll do my best to sit on my hands.).

  Now, for HOW to get rid of them, there are"firm but polite" methods, sly methods, and rude methods.

  Polite: "I am struggling right now and I need you to respect me as I work it out. I will be away from the meetings for a while....oh all right, you can check on me in a month."

  Firm but Polite: "I have issues I have with the Watchtower Society and I have concluded, after much reflection that it is not the truth. Thank you for your time but I am no longer interested." repeat as often as necessary, the "broken record" method of getting rid of sticky sales people.

  Great tips: http://www.futurevisions.org/boundaries_Manipulation.htm

  Earnest and Hard-Hitting: Pick one brother that you most respect. Invite him over for tea, and ask them to be prepared to answer some questions you have. When you meet with him, look him earnestly in the eye and ask if he is prepared to discuss your deepest concerns? Some preparation is required for this. You will need to recognize bait-and-switch, red herrings, strawman arguments and insist that he return to your concern. Don't let him tag-team by bringing another brother along for support. The conversation is also over if he says he has to do more "research". This research consists of reviewing your concerns in the Reasoning book and WT CD. He might approach a heavy hitter at the hall for answers.

  Sly method: Make it clear that you have been associating with apostates, and see them evaporate. Sometimes all it takes is a sheaf of printouts or a copy of "Crisis of Conscience". Fear of the devil is a nasty deterrent.

  Avoidance method: Stop picking up the phone. Turn off the ringer. Don't answer the door. If you run in to Witnesses you like in public, be polite but stick to the weather. If anyone says they "Miss you at the meetings", say, "I miss you too. Let's make a date for tea."

  I really mean it method: Send a registered letter to the local elder body requesting that you be put on the do not call list. Say you don't have to provide a reason.

  Rude method: see below!

  Minimus posted a tongue-in-cheek thread on this recentlly:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/210173/1/How-Would-You-Recommend-Getting-Rid-Of-Jehovahs-Witnesses
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  jgnat

  By the way, as a non-Witness married to a JW for the past nine years, I have had one - count it one - social visit from local Witnesses, that was not related to a study. We had a roaring good time just being ourselves. I have no problem with Witnesses when they shed their WT persona. Ever afterwards there have been deferrals and excuses why they have not come back, and I certainly have not been invited out for a private social. When I see them at the meeting, guess what they say? LOL. They don't miss me. They want to take credit for fresh meat!
• 

  jgnat

  OK, OK, one more story, to illustrate the Witness dread of facing their ultiimate fear. Hubby has pretty much reconciled himself to the idea that I would never join the Witnesses, but once in a while, in a fit of zeal, he begs me to consider it. I can undertand his temptation. It would be such a feather in his cap. The last time he outright asked me, I said, "Fine. Do you really want to know? Then schedule a time and I'll sit down with you and the Secret of Family Happiness Book and I'll show you exactly why I'll never join."

  He swiftly dropped the subject.

  The ultimate fear is that it's all a lie and they've just wasted a whole bunch of time, opportunities, shoe leather, and broken relationships for a...mirage.

  This is why I'll always ask an inquiring Witness if they really want to know? If they aren't ready, I don't bother them. And they don't bother me.
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  godrulz

  jg, do you have children? How does that work in raising them one way or the other? This is an issue for Catholic-Protestant, Jew-Christian, etc. I am glad that they do not seem to be trying to undermine your marriage, since it is a priority, even if of mixed faiths.
• 

  yknot

  So, jgnat, and anyone else experienced in dealing with JW's and nearly/almost-JW's, is there any way I can set myself free without being downright rude to apparently very kind people? Or am I just going to bite the bullet and be really brutal?

  Just be honest.

  You don't see yourself being able to be a JW.

  You know from reading the KS10 that anyone who believes (and speaks) about differing theological opinion from the GB are seen as apostates.

  They will ask where you read the ks10, you will say 'Jehovahs-Witness.net' and they will say some things like you have been led astray or mis-informed and you will politely counter that you are choosing to believe what you have read and are not interested in becoming a JW.

  You will tell them you will think of them fondly and appreciated all they have taught you about the WTS but that this is the end of the line and to continue the discussion would only lead you to bring up subjects that they would find offensive.

  end with a request to be listed on the 'do not call' list.
• 

  yknot

  I agree that a big problem is the semantical barriers with the kingdom of the cults. When a Christian talks about God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Bible, salvation, grace, etc., we mean different things than Mormons and JWs. The answer is not to avoid using biblical terms, but defining them in the right way. Just because there are pseudo-Christians is not a reason not to use the word (though with Muslims, it would be wiser to use follower of Jesus in addition to properly defining Christian apart from sinful Westerners). If a JW wants to talk about God's active force, I will talk about the person of the Holy Spirit. If they talk about Michael-Jesus, I will be clear that Michael is not Jesus (not avoid mentioning the Archangel). We should watch for JW buzzwords, but we don't have to learn them all if we clarify what we mean by terms to avoid misunderstanding. JW disfellowshipping is not biblical, but there is a biblical counterpart we could connect to the word

  Seriously... 'When a Xian talks about God'..... so are you saying "'when an athanasiusist talks about God' or are you saying that 'when a non-JW Xian regardless of Arian/Athanasiusian affliation talks about God'"

  And what is the 'right way' ?

  I can tell you this... as a JW myself, your pretense and posturing is a turn off, every JW I know would just smile politely and then walk away having dismissed everything you have said or suggested......

  You are shooting blanks my friend.... it may sound good in your head but it is dead on arrival in dubbie-land!
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  godrulz

  JWs are deceived and do not think critically. I expect the same reaction from a JW that Jesus got from the Pharisees.