by Chariklo 132 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Chariklo

    Thanks, jgnat and Yknot for your advice. Great stuff, all of it.

    Last night I was feeling totally exhausted by all the JW phone calls I'd had. 24 hours later, having reviewed what happened yesterday I am seething at all the subtle ploys used to make me feel how much they missed me and wanted me, how concerned they are for me, how important it is not to separate myself off from them, and imperative to go back to the meetings. (Guess where I wasn't this evening.) Last night they didn't exactly get to me but they certainly unsettled me.

    No more. I've been browsing the forums here and observing the controlling devices used by the Organisation to keep the people in submission and a state of dependence. Very interesting was the thread highlighting the true nature of the publishing company, just what a memember of my family insisted was the case from the start of my JW adventures, though I was too blinded and dazzled by the non-light to see it. (Someone a few days ago posted a great image of a deer standing in a road rooted to the spot and dazzled by oncoming headlights. That was me, but me no longer.

    Jgnat, I'm curious. Indulge me, please. You're not a JW and obviously see the whole thing very clearly. Why on earth do you go to meetings? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

  • jgnat

    I only attend very rarely to keep the peace. (My hubby is a JW). I go to at least one day at the conventions and general assembly and I attend the memorial. Hence I know them while not being a part of them. I've done my research too, thanks to the great resources on this board. This also explains how I have access to things like the WT CD and the latest magazine articles.

    Here's a fantastic exit story with some great advice.


    I'm pretty immune to manipulation. My mom (not a JW) is a master manipulator, and I learned from her not to get sucked in. Backbone and skepticism. That's me.

    Then again, I love being part of a community. I am active in local initiatives (crime prevention, dog walks, yadda yadda) as well as being active at my church. Right now I am painting some murals with an artist friend of mine. The nursery looks lovely in a jungle theme.

  • godrulz

    jgnat: would it be your advice for a non-JW to not partake at the Memorial even if they do so in another church? Why or why not?

  • jgnat

    The peer pressure is enormous not to partake. I don't. The whole thing is blasphemy, a ritual separation of people from their God. It's quite fitting, actually. Pass but not partake. According to Witness doctrine, attendees do not have a direct link to Jesus, but must enjoy through association with the "annointed", who are barely in attendance these days. I've only met one self-proclaimed annointed in ten years.

    When hubby asks how I liked it, I say things like, "The flower arrangement was nice.", or "It was about the same as last year." He begs for morsels that the event had some sort of holy impact, but of course it doesn't.

  • godrulz

    I also find it sad that the average Witness does not expect to see God/Jesus ever. The whole point of redemption is to see God/Jesus face to face and be with Him forever (whether in heaven or as He rules from earth visibly, personally). The WT rips all except 144K off in so many ways. Paradise earth may be pleasant, but nothing compares to intimacy with God, promised throughout Scripture. Jn. 17:3 NWT taking in knowledge misses the point (and poor translation). It is about knowing God now and forever, not just knowing facts about Him or beliefs (packing head with no heart reality). Then again, the same can happen for Catholics and Mass. One can go through that ritual and still not have relationship with God through Christ, n'est ce pas?

  • Chariklo
    Jn. 17:3 NWT taking in knowledge misses the point (and poor translation). It is about knowing God now and forever, not just knowing facts about Him or beliefs (packing head with no heart reality).

    Godrulz, you're absolutely right here. They use that Bible reference all the time, and it's one of the ways they confound newcomers/prospective converts. Because of my background and life history I happen to be very well-versed and educated in non-JW Bible knowledge and theology, not just Catholic. But from the start, I was made to understand that I was without "accurate knowledge" of the Bible and was a mere infant in the Christian faith.

    That last element was one of the things that finally made me wake up...it was one of the straws that collectively became the very last straw and caused me to realise I'd been well and truly had. I'm long in the tooth, and been a practising church member and Christian my whole life. Recently, over and over again, I was being told that unlike JW's who are "mature Christians" I was only just beginning to learn.

    Those who know me have been utterly bemused that I could have fallen for this, and so many people have said that I was the very last person they'd ever have expected this to happen to. Maybe I am just one example of how very dangerous and pernicious, this organisation is.

    You asked jgnat

    would it be your advice for a non-JW to not partake at the Memorial even if they do so in another church? Why or why not?

    I did not partake in either of the two memorials I attended...my relationship with JW's spans about 15 months. On the first occasion it was completely new to me and I felt I was there as an observer. On the second I was an unbaptised publisher, but realised that what was happening left me onmoved, although most of those there saw this as a solemn moment, and the meeting as the most important one of the year.

    For a Catholic, the memorial has very little relationship indeed with an understanding of Jesus' instructions and what happened at the Last Supper. It is so far removed from what happens at Mass as to bear almost no resemblance other than a parody, but it's so different that it's not even that. In my imperfect understanding of non-Catholic celebrations of Holy Communion, they are still very far indeed from what the JW's do, with probably no-one present able to participate. My understanding of every other Christian approach to Jesus' actions, speaking in general and non-denominational terms, is that at the very least he was making a further link with God available to mankind, another way for people to receive spiritual help and sustenance. If I were to participate at a Memorial it would to me be empty, because the intention underlying the JW memorial is so far removed from the general Christian understanding of what Jesus did.

    I don't know what it's like where you are, but in the UK it is common practice for Protestant churches to invite all present to receive Holy Communion if they are communicant members in good standing in their own churches; i.e. for the most part, an Anglican celebrant may explicitly invite anyone present, be they Methodist, Presbyterian, even Catholics, to receive the sacrament. For the most part, Catholics won't do so, because their own church frowns upon the practice for the very reason I outlined above, namely that tjheir understanding of what is taking place is too different, and the intention underlying the procedure is different. (I won't explain further here because it would take too long and wouldn't be relevant here but ask me if you want to know and if you don't already, which you probably do.)

    Jgnat, you wrote

    The whole thing is blasphemy, a ritual separation of people from their God.

    Absolutely, You've hit the nail on the head. Heaven reserved for 144,000, everyone else as dead as a dodo when they die but if they are very very good publishers they get to live for ever in fantasy Earth along with all the cuddly animals, provided they don't mind toiling in the fields and beringing in their harvest without any technology, and living alongside all the JW's who never expected to see God anyway.

    And, back to participating at the memorial, we find that the GB are saying that those who partake may actually be mentally ill.


    I'll let that thread make the point for me. jgnat and goldrulz, loved your posts!

  • godrulz

    In our church, all those who know and love Jesus may partake in an open communion (that is memorial, zwinglian, not Lutheran consubstantiation nor Catholic transubstantiation). Faith in Christ should be the only criteria for partaking of the symbolic emblems. The 144K JW teaching is as unbiblical as any teaching I have ever heard. It robs JWs of any hope of eternal life, seeing the kingdom/King (Jn. 3:3 NWT unless anybody....). All who trust in Christ are spiritually regenerated/born again.

  • Chariklo

    No argument from me, Godrulz. ....9, 10 days I've been on this board? I've only now just realised what your name means!!!

  • godrulz

    God rules! He is sovereign/supreme/Almighty! The kingdom refers to the rulership of God.

  • nugget

    Everyone has the opportunity to be an idiot at least once, it's part of the human condition. Nothing is irrivocable and no situation is so complicated it cannot be unpicked. People admire humility when we admit we have made a mistake and say sorry.

    witnesses are very good at presenting themselves as special and holy and their literature seems logical and bible based. However this is not the truth. Their doctrines can be challenged and their sources checked. Also what they tell you in the beginning is not what you are asked to believe in the end.

    Witnesses are people just like any other goup with the difference that they are trained to weigh everyone up in JW scales and see if they meet the correct spiritual criteria. When baptised they give elders permission to look into their private lives to question them and judge them. Elders judge who is and who is not in the club and whether you meet the criteria. That is a lot of power to give anyone over your life especially when not being in the club means no one will talk to you and will treat you as dead.

    Be sure they are worthy if not leave it is better than living in misery.

Share this