For non-believers: What evidence would it take for you to believe in 'god'?

by jay88 176 Replies latest jw friends

  • Nickolas

    Love is manifested, Psac. It does not require faith to be perceived.

  • PSacramento
    Love is manifested, Psac. It does not require faith to be perceived.

    Perhaps, but it requires faith to pursue it.

  • Nickolas

    Perhaps, but it requires faith to pursue it.

    Or gullibility.

  • jookbeard

    I go with most here, seeing is believing and if there are gods perhaps they could come out and say hi a bit more FFS,also if people believe that the Bible is the word of God ( nothing wrong with that) the simple fact is that critiques of the Bible can point out very simple cases to support that it contradicts itself/does not have any original writings in existence and the huge holes from Adams creation to the Flood(impossible) to the child hood of JC and it was all written after the events!Also I need to see the personage of The Devil, saying "look at the wonders of creation" or "look at all the bad stuff that goes on" doesn't wash anymore.

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    TEC: Such as they were happening before, and I just never noticed them because I wasn't looking? Or such as, since I'm looking for it, it's happening?

    Either one or even both. Google cognitive biases. But I should warn you, it's a double edged sword. Reading up on the subject may cause you to distrust yourself.

  • Curtains

    May I ask you a question?

    You say you experienced the things I listed (besides the voice) when you were a believer. Do you still experience such things as an atheist? (or agnostic; I can't recall, sorry) Truly curious.


    most certainly. Call it animal instincts, intuition or whatever except that now I disagree with ideas and thoughts and intuitions that come to me - I'm not a slave to them as I was in the past. I think I prefer to see it as a poetic dimension that we can all access. I have studied a little poetry in my travels and was very amazed to discover that many poets see themselves as inspired by the muses and they sound like they are saying they are prophets. So this former religious stronghold can for an atheist be transformed into an experimental literary/philosophical area that even a layperson like mysef can dip into except that now reason also enters the equation.

  • superpunk

    Reposting it...

    Here's an example. This is part of a debate between Peter Atkins and William Lane Craig. Craig is an exceptionally glib debater, and he's also an evangelical Christian who supposedly defends a very specific doctrine, that his god turned into a human who lived on Earth 2000 years ago, and that belief in his magical powers is your ticket to a Disneyland for dead people in the sky. I'd like to see some evidence for that, but no…his tactic here is to demand proof of bizarre assertions from science, answering questions that his religion can't.

    What's amazing here is that Christians are actually impressed with Craig's millimeter-deep, reason-free handwaving. Ha ha, you scientific smartie-pants, you can't use science to prove you're not a simulation on a computer of a brain in a vat that was created five minutes ago with false memories of your life, so therefore, Jesus. Never mind that science doesn't deal in proofs. Never mind that Craig's religion can't prove it either, except by blind obdurate asseveration. Never mind that those are all non-questions, non-issues, irrelevant sophomoric wanking. Never mind, it's Calvinball! The score is now Paisley over Feldspar, we win!

  • poopsiecakes

    There are some things that would help me believe in a god, including but not limited to:

    1. Simultaneous flashes of inspiration to everyone sincerely researching a cure for cancer, MS, ALS, arthritis, alzheimers, etc. and how to make it available to the masses at no cost.
    2. Assuming that god understands how weather patterns and tectonic plate shifts work, some kind of guidance to provide early warning systems for tornados and earthquakes would be nice.
    3. Instead of going through the cost and time of court trials and jury verdicts, if someone is guilty of a crime against humanity (not a parking violation or the like) an indelible tattoo on their forehead of the crime they're guilty of would be cool - until they've changed their ways, then the tattoo goes away.
    4. Everyone, everywhere will have enough food to eat. Every day. All year. No matter what.
    5. A user interface download straight to the DNA to enable everyone to instinctively know how to drive in any conditions.

    If even one of these things happened, I would probably start to believe again...

  • SweetBabyCheezits

    Double post... so I'll use this space for a random pic:

  • SweetBabyCheezits

    ^ Poopsie, you have some good ideas for god to look into. He needs to get with the times.

    Superpunk, this was totally not the point of your excellent post but I think simulism - though I don't have any faithin it, per se - is a stronger hypothesis than anything asserted in the Bible.

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