Paul, leading authority on Christianity, does NOT quote Jesus!

by Terry 204 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Since we don't have Q, we don't know what the synoptic gospel writers slanted or neglected to mention. If he spent three years in ministry, He had to say a lot more than is attributed to him. No contemporary writer mentions a Cecil B. DeMill phenomena when Jesus spoke. Whoever compiled the sayings had to pick and choose. I imagine Mary Magdalene would find different things to report than Peter. Yet the synoptic gospels mostly agree in narrative and sayings. I find that amazing.

    I adore Bible history discussions. There is something about manipulation of data in all disciplines that makes me almost intoxicated. The Witnesses have very odd views without much discussion or justification for leaving orthodoxy. The cult culture hurts me more than any doctrine. Well, I never could take how they treated women. It is strange, too. My father was at Bethel for more than a decade when Bethel was a handful of men. Everyone knew everyone else. My whole family always talked about Fred Franz as though he were better trained than the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury, head of the Southern Baptists, etc. I wanted to grow up and be as smart and sharp as he. Looking outside in, aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

    All this knowledge seemed too great for a female born of a factory Bethelite. Now I studied it as an undergrad. Koine Greek was my downfall. Today I believe I could easily have surpassed Franz. My reference point keeps changing.

  • AGuest
  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Benefit of the doubt, dear tec (again, peace to you!).

    I wouldn't, dear Jay88 (peace to you, too!). Paul had something to contend with that the WTBTS and its GB/leaders never did: the temple at Jerusalem with its priesthood, which stood as a "visible representation" of God on earth... and thus, a reminder of Law. For those new Jewish christians who still "walked by sight", that institution stood as a reminder that there had been (and maybe still was) a Law Covenant under which folks could be put to death.

    In contrast, the WTBTS and its GB/Leadership NEVER had such a thing to contend with (save, maybe, the Catholic Church very early on). To the contary, they actually REESTABLISHED that visible representation... including the Law and its priesthood... which have been done away with by Christ... and called themselves it! Something even Paul didn't do (in fact, he stated that he was glad he HADN'T baptized any of them, because folks were trying to say they "belonged" to HIM... and others... as some had "belonged" to John [the Baptist]... rather than to Christ). He also never held himself up... or out... as the "way" to God, as the WTBTS does.

    So, no, I don't think they deserve the same BOD, dear one. They do, however, deserve our pity and compassion.

    Again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • tec
    tec

    Ah... thanks Shelby.

    Jay, I try to give most people the benefit of the doubt. However, the WBTS isn't a person, it is an organization that claims to be the only way into the truth - something Paul as a man never claimed. Something that contradicts Christ Himself, and they have yet to recant that teaching. It is an organization that demands membership into IT (even in baptism), and it seems very concerned with ITS own image. Its harder to give an organization the benefit of the doubt when that organization claims to be the Way to God and the Kingdom, that they alone have the Truth, and that eternal Life comes only to those who are a part of them.

    As Shelby mentioned, no one was baptized into Paul - and he was thankful for it.

    Tammy

  • jay88
    jay88

    Paul boasted about how special he was because Christ spoke to him directly in spirit, and how he was favored even more so than the Apostles.

    WTBTS say Christ has favored them out of all the religions on earth, and communicates with them in spirit, though they say you have to go through them, WTBTS is aware that god is judge.

    With all respect I don't see much difference

    thanks for responding, Shelby and Tec

  • designs
    designs

    Had 'Paul' and 'Jesus' had more honesty the accounts would have shown that among the Rabbinic Sages and Schools of their day there already was condemnation against a small minority of 'Pietists' or Zebuim, as Jews identified them. Paul makes is sound like that's all there was.

    As the Talmud says 'Who are the genuine Pharisees, those who do the will of their Father in Heaven because they love Him'.

    Betcha you never heard of that in your Christian Bible Study classes

    Ask a hundred 'Christians' what comes to mind when they hear the word 'Pharisee' is it a postive or negative image.

    'Paul' and 'Jesus' like to hide these little truths from the gullible public they are trying to hoodwink. The rapid effort to 'de-Judaize Christianity' and transform it into a new religion among the Gentile world produced a violent anti-semitism. Some theologians recognized this grevious error by 'Paul'- Christianity was the child of Judaism which within a score of years became a Gentile Cult' Protestant historian Morton Enslin.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Designs, anti-semitism is unjustifiable. However, at that time, there was a large antichristianist sentiment among the semite contingent.

    The Jews gave the Christians a lot of grief in the early decades.

    The rest has become history, unfortunately.

    BTS

  • designs
    designs

    Burn-

    Yes there seems to be both areas were there was compatiblity and open hostility especially as the new Gentile Church tried to redefine what the Shema proclaimed. The Jewish Nazarenes and Ebionites were rapidly distancing themselves from their Gentile counterparts.

    But the central question was who was misrepresenting whom. Why is the NT painting the Rabbis as they do when it really was a small minority who were to fastidious and overly pious. Why not be honest. Why not engage in real dialogue with these Schools rather than smack and run. Something began to smell very early the the NT and they never correct their errors. ie the 'Pharisee' example as one of many.

  • tec
    tec
    Paul boasted about how special he was because Christ spoke to him directly in spirit, and how he was favored even more so than the Apostles.

    Hi Jay. I don't remember anything that supports the above sentiment - most especially for the second part. Could you provide a source? Thanks.

    Tammy

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    I would like to seem some evidence to back up your assertions Designs.

    The Saducees were more adherent to a strictly textual interpretation of the Law. The Pharisees had many attachments.

    Additions, you could say. Entangling additions, you might perhaps add if so inclined.

    BTS

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